Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I like Aestu's point that stability is incredibly important in the upbringing children. The idea that they should instead be sent to state institutions because they are somehow more stable seems pretty far off though.

The fact that the divorce rate is over 50% and my attitudes diverge from those of most Americans is sufficient to strongly suggest that my "grasp of reality" is quite a bit better than most.

To understand a thing is to begin to be able to control it.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Well, that's one of the points of the article, Aestu, is that people...or at least men...are waking up to this reality. The "mancession," according to this author and others, is driven at least in part by men that aren't interested in doing anything more than just what is needed to provide for some scant hobbies ($15 a month WoW?) and basic needs.

Because our current system is so imbalanced yet is considered the norm and women are disproportionately dependent upon it, you can't have a serious conversation about it until you get beyond the initial emotional reaction. You don't have to look any farther than Simone for someone having this knee-jerk reaction because they didn't like the presentation at least as much as they were disturbed by the facts that generated it. The initial reaction isn't, "well, here's why it's wrong," it's "you're a bad person (misogynist/bigot/racist/homophobe)." Instead of processing the information, and telling anyone why it's wrong or the facts are out of place, the response is about "the tone" of the article and how something mentioned in the article is "bigoted" despite the fact that it happens with regularity across multiple racial/social groups.

The most telling part, to me, is how Simone, despite her clearly stated aversion to the article, has re-posted it on Facebook. Not as an intellectual exercise, but simply to get others in her circle to echo her initial knee-jerk reaction so she can feel that reaction is validated, effectively avoiding the implications of what that article contains and burying her head in the group-think.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

The "mancession", like a lot of other unrealistic and unsustainable arrangements such as the education bubble, the Israeli occupation, and the American standard of living, will come undone when the American economy ceases to be able to support them.

In 25 years, American women will be what Russian women are today. Every Chinese, Indian or European upstart will acquire an impoverished and graspy American girl.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Are you implying that in the future there will be reverse mail-order brides? American girls going over to be the wives of some Russian guy?

I think it's exactly what he's getting at by saying that. That idea might hold water IF, after this system collapses, women find themselves in subservient roles again, and it's more appealing to be financially attached to an affluent foreigner.

I've already seen the migration of American men to third world locations (mostly Vietnam vets and men in that age range that I have contact with over the internet) who initially left because their retirements would go farther at a higher standard of living, but decided to stay because of other benefits, like agreeable women in those countries who still adhered to traditional gender roles. That's not to say those women are subservient idiots, one guy I correspond with on occasion married a Mexican woman who is educated and teaches Spanish to gringos (http://www.fredoneverything.net), and he speaks about "the good old days" and the decline of American civilization from time-to-time. The idea that men should feel bad because they'd rather continue with the traditional social contract is a construct of those with a vested interest in the status quo.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I did point out where he was wrong in multiple places, and even conceded a point or two. Did you not read my comment train, or were you the one here 'hands on ears going la-la-la-I can hear you)?

And I reposted if on FB because I knew at least 4 people with various views would crawl out if the woodwork, and create a better discussion than could ever be generated here, or on your page alone.

Let's call the "women make less money than men" thing the sinking ship tax.

If we're on a sinking boat, for some fucked up reason, you get the life boat. Yes, I will take my extra dollar an hour.

This actually hurts my feelings a bit Zaryi, since I decided to post this here.


I think we have good discussions on FUBU (when they don't get derailed into flame wars and herrderr you suck! which DOES happen a little too often) because of the diverse backgrounds and viewpoints of our members. I'd rather discuss something here than with a bunch of Harvard academic blowhards.

And people are saying Aestu is out of touch with reality. That's a stupid analogy, and has nothing to do with the issue. If I work as hard as you, and work as well as you, i have every right to make as much money as you. Oh, and have you ever heard of the Mommy Tax?

Not to mention constructs like the glass ceiling/escalator are still quite noticiable in the workforce today.

The "fact" that women are underpaid has been busted so many times it's not funny. The alleged gap is caused by professional women, not women in general (who make what their male counterparts in less skilled fields make, most of those wages being determined by their position and the time they've spent in it--most companies have a wage scale based on these factors). Professional women have been shown to negotiate less strenuously in contract negotiations, unlike men who are more aggressive in that setting. Add to this the fact that professional women lose value/leverage when they leave their careers to have children, and that others take positions that end up being compared to men that aren't similar because they're being paid less in exchange for fewer time constraints that allow them to manage their family/children.

That's not adding in how the "glass ceiling" comes hand-in-hand with a "glass floor," and that for the most part women are absent from dangerous and physically demanding jobs, leading to 90% debilitating occupational injuries being suffered by men. There is a trade-off, and reasons for the perceived disparity, but to paraphrase what one of your associates said, "like always girls always qqing about nothing."

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I agree with you on the workplace.

thats absolutely true.

However, if you want equal treatment, you have to give up special treatment. you can't, by definition, have both.

I agree completely with Jubber. Women are not men with boobs. They do not need to be. Life offers adequate opportunities for those with the skill and the will to make things happen. Everyone faces the obligations and privileges unique to their station and that is life.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

To label such an arrangement "reverse" presupposes that there is a natural and appropriate order of things that all roads should lead to America. Use of this term in such a context betrays an underlying bias just as its use reflects underlying bias when it is applied to racism or sexism.

There is no such thing as "reverse" matrimony any more than there is racism or sexism. There is only the universal evil of bigotry, and the universal truth that the strong shall do as they will and the weak shall do as they must.

It has always been the way of things that the women of a weak country are driven towards foreigners of means.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.