Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
It is currently Wed Jul 09, 2025 4:47 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:51 pm  
User avatar

Obama Zombie
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 pm
Posts: 3149
Location: NoVA
Offline

I agreed with pretty much the entire video... except for one part, and I don't remember what it was. It was something at the end though.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:34 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Eturnalshift wrote:
In high school is when I really started to develop a political identity. During that time I was hanging with a pretty politically active group that consisted of a few skins and punks. Their idea of fighting the establishment and having total liberty was something I embraced when I was younger, but I still held myself to a different set of morals and values, and it was those morals and values which kept me apart from that crowd. For instance, I've never agreed with abortion as a form of birth control (since I feel like that is ducking responsibility) but they were fine with it. I didn't agree with going out and drinking and using drugs as a kid (because of the illegality and lack of interest), but they did. I never agreed with stealing from others (since I'm not entitled to the results of someone's work), but they were cool with it. I never believed in hurting people unnecessarily, but they wouldn't hesitate to pick a fight with the rednecks, jocks or wannabe gangstas. I grew to hate them and their ways so I stopped talking to them because I wanted to be better than them.

I'm sure some of you remember reading stories about my parents and their youth, and how the early parts of my life were spent in my parents company, hitch-hiking across the country, sleeping in corn fields and on beaches, and begging for food. They've worked two jobs and lived paycheck-to-paycheck nearly all their lives, starting at their ages of twelve, and knowing how they worked at a young age to help their families, I started doing the same. When I was thirteen and fourteen I started mowing lawns and shoveling drive ways so I could provide for myself; clothes, toys, games, skateboards, etc. When I was fifteen I started working at the Commissary as a bag boy making only tips. That job is the one I carried through high school and it afforded me a couple used vehicles, money to pay my bills, buy my gas, my lunch money and my clothes. My parents noticed my efforts and my father told me (on my 16th birthday) that he saw me as a man and would treat me like one as long as I continued acting like a man; paying my bills, holding a job, doing well in my studies, etc. That was a defining moment in my life because I looked up to my father and he looked on me as an equal. They also taught me everything they knew about managing, investing and building what little money they had. My family and our experiences imparted an important lesson on me; money and possessions are earned and nothing is free. For these reasons, I've always believed in fiscal conservatism, living within our means, buying only what we can afford and being charitable with our time and money when we can. Also, since I've been working for over half my life, I don't appreciate people who didn't work as hard (or haven't worked at all like some collegiate progressives) thinking they're entitled to any hardworking persons money.

Socially, I have no one turning point in my beliefs. They're just things that I've developed over the years after meeting some pretty shitty people that lack responsibility, drive and the will to be anything other than worthless. I've tried to distance myself from most of the people I don't agree with (minus half the retards on this forum) but I'm always meeting new people (normally progressives) who want to lower the bar so everyone can be included and that disgusts me. Only the strong survive, mah friends.


You overlook the good fortune you had to be white, physically able, and from a stable family. Not everyone is so fortunate, and for those from difficult backgrounds, "getting out" is not so easy as you like to think.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:39 pm  
User avatar

Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4308
Location: Winchester Virginia
Offline

Aestu wrote:
You overlook the good fortune you had to be white, physically able, and from a stable family. Not everyone is so fortunate, and for those from difficult backgrounds, "getting out" is not so easy as you like to think.


There are plenty of non-caucasian disabled people from broken homes setting a good example. It's amazing what happens when people refuse to see themselves as disadvantaged victims and just do what they want.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:43 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Usdk wrote:
So when I throw a jab at someone who is supposed to be on the'open minded' side of the aisle for being closed minded' that triggers all that aestu verbal diarrhea? Ok.

I used to hate abortion. Now im ok with it.

I used to hate gay marriage. Now im ok with it.

I used to be cool with the wars in the middle east. Now im sick of them and want way too different of an entire sequence of events to bother typing it on a phone.

Who's closed minded?

Aestu it was a joke at someone being 'open minded' but in the same breath saying 'im not ever gonna change ever!' Im sorry you can't get jokes with your head so far up your own ass but at least you had some corn oil left over to make that insertion easier, right?


You're taking the topic out of context. We were talking about left vs right wing mentality about society, not about individual special interests that really aren't that important.

Whether or not abortion or gay marriage are legal doesn't make as big a difference in what our lives are like as the differences in values and goals for society that divide left and right.

There's no reason to change if the viewpoints are analyzed and one is found to be correct and the other incorrect. Not every argument with two sides is a horse race.

What I wrote was lucid and no longer than a short news blurb. You call it diarrhea because you don't have the patience to read something that doesn't agree with what you already believe (which was also Joklem's reason for using the term) - "anything that proves a viewpoint I don't agree with is shit".


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:54 pm  
User avatar

Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4308
Location: Winchester Virginia
Offline

You've never written anything short and concise since I've known you. It's like there's something in your brain that says, "why use a sentence when an essay will do?"

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:56 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Jubbergun wrote:
There are plenty of non-caucasian disabled people from broken homes setting a good example. It's amazing what happens when people refuse to see themselves as disadvantaged victims and just do what they want.


I don't deny there are many pathetic moochers.

The other day I was browsing Craigslist. I saw a few ads in which people openly stated they were on disability due to "bipolar disorder" or something like that. I know a lot of people who have made something out of nothing, and I know a lot of other people who can't get anything done.

Not everyone has the titanic will to overcome their place and time. Not everyone has the opportunity to exert that will even if they have it. The fact some people mooch is no more grounds to damn everyone seeking help any more than the fact that some guilty people go free is to damn anyone accused of anything.

The social safety net, like due process, is a social institution that, although subject to abuse, is better than nothing.

There's nothing more self-serving than arguing one's implied superiority because someone was fortunate enough to get superior results. All the more so since those people always make it sound like a Robinson Crusoe story and conveniently turn a blind eye to their own advantages, whether things in their environment, the subtle ways in which good government have made this country livable, or simply their own good fortune to be in the right place at the right time - or not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's also hypocritical in the context of one's own patriotism. As they say - "love it or leave it". Who's to pick and choose one's countrymen - to say some people, a whole class of people, deserve their lot? You want to talk nationalism, consider we're all in this together - merits, faults and all. The purpose of social programs, at least in principle, is to fortify merits and minimize faults.

I don't deny that welfare, as it exists, is a badly designed program that by and large makes things worse. That's not to say the entire concept should be scrapped or that those in need deserve their lot in life.

Life's inherent unfairness is not sufficient reason to refuse to strive to make life more fair.

I think Nixon said it best:

Quote:
There are those who say that the old Spirit of ’76 is dead...that we no longer have the strength of character, the idealism, the faith in our founding purposes that that spirit represents.

Those who say this do not know America.

We have been undergoing self-doubts and self-criticism. But these are only the other side of our growing sensitivity to the persistence of want in the midst of plenty, of our impatience with the slowness with which old ills are being overcome.

If we were indifferent to the shortcomings of our society, or complacent about our institutions, or blind to the lingering inequities...then we would have lost our way.

But the fact that we have those concerns is evidence that our ideals, deep down, are still strong. Indeed, they remind us that what is really best about America is its compassion. They remind us that in the final analysis, America is great not because it is strong, not because it is rich, but because this is a good country.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:59 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Jubbergun wrote:
You've never written anything short and concise since I've known you. It's like there's something in your brain that says, "why use a sentence when an essay will do?"


If you think a few paragraphs is an "essay" then you need to develop more patience and discipline, and watch less TV. The very fact people think this way is historically unprecedented and psychologically aberrant, and it's a major factor in the decline of our country.

No one can make understand a problem or make good decisions about anything if they dismiss anything more than a paragraph long as TLDR.

I am sorry that life is not as simple as you'd prefer.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:18 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
Posts: 7047
Offline

All this because Aestu doesn't understand jokes


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:47 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Like that, except substitute the word "joke".


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:04 pm  
User avatar

Obama Zombie
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 pm
Posts: 3149
Location: NoVA
Offline

Aestu wrote:
You overlook the good fortune you had to be white, physically able, and from a stable family. Not everyone is so fortunate, and for those from difficult backgrounds, "getting out" is not so easy as you like to think.

Not once did I overlook who I am or where I came from. Where I am today and the principals, morals and values I hold closest to me are the result of the path my family has walked in life. I was born white and healthy; that's not my fault and it shouldn't be held against me because people like you want to make race such a defining factor in nearly all aspects of life. Would my families journey been any less difficult if we were black? Perhaps. When I was in high school, my father almost lost his job to some under-qualified black guy because someone had to meet a quota. Neither of us can say with any certainty because that's not the life I was born into, so continuing down that road would be a waste of time. Also, when did I ever suggest getting out was easy? It was far from easy and it's something I suspect most people here don't know much about, except through some study that they read in a book. I guess my point is your assertion that my (or anyones) background is less difficult because we were born to a different race or stable family is... well, fucking stupid.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:57 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Eturnalshift wrote:
I guess my point is your assertion that my (or anyones) background is less difficult because we were born to a different race or stable family is... well, fucking stupid.

Neither of us can say with any certainty because that's not the life I was born into, so continuing down that road would be a waste of time.


Not at all.

You want to write off that question ("see sig") and refuse to consider the answer because, deep down, you know that answer would negate the premise of your world view: that you have more than some people because you are more deserving.

You believe what you do because you want to see yourself as superior and you want to believe, as described in that BBC article I linked, that you made what you have in a vacuum.

Only in your own eyes does it denigrate what you have to point out that others are at a disadvantage.
Saying that others were not as blessed as you does not devalue what you managed to make of your blessings.

It is both paranoid and willfully ignorant to assume that those who disagree with your worldview automatically are in favor of all which you oppose. My father, too, nearly lost his job for the same reason yours did, and I've had (many, many, many more than you can ever guess) similar experiences. I completely agree that affirmative action and all such racist policies are fundamentally unfair.

What I don't agree on is that a fair and equitable society can be achieved through total lasseiz-faire.

Equal opportunity should mean just that, equal opportunity, and I put the emphasis on the latter. Your premise is that opportunity is existential in nature: being born into the world. But that is faulty, people are the products of the world they live in, not merely flesh and blood, and we owe it to all our people to make a better world.

That is what makes a nation strong, great - the world it builds for its citizens to prosper in. You may be content enough to enjoy what you do and leave others to their fate, but that will bring our nation to ruin in the end - we are all in this together whether we like it or not. That doesn't mean we have to carry people, or hand them cash, but it does mean we have an obligation to make opportunity more equal, through housing, healthcare, education, employment opportunities. No viable society is based on the law of the jungle.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:58 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline



Especially close attention to #2. That is what I am getting at in my above point about "strong, great countries".


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:51 pm  
User avatar

Obama Zombie
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 pm
Posts: 3149
Location: NoVA
Offline

see sig

Edit ~ I didn't watch your video and I'm not sure I read your entire post; talking to you is tiresome (especially when you think you know more about people than they know about themselves.) Anyways, to comment on what I did read: I have more than some people because I made some pretty good choices when they came my way. I decided to work instead of not. I decided to help myself instead of not. I decided to not get involved with drugs and drinking. I decided to cast away negative people and try to surround myself with positive people. I decided to go to school (which I worked to pay for with the help of my jobs tuition reimbursement programs). Every day we're given hundreds of choices, each with consequences. I thought about those consequences before I picked my path. Regardless of what I (or anyone else) was born into, we're in control of our choices and they can change the course of our futures. That's why I feel a sense of pride; I've done well for myself and nothing you say can take that away from anyone who has done well. Like Jubber pointed out, not everyone takes pity upon themselves whenever you perceive them to be disadvantaged.

Maybe you should take time to reflect on your choices in life instead of trying to knock mine down. Maybe then you'd understand why you have no friends, no family and little significance to anyone outside of your own little world you've created in your head... ya know, that one where you're the gravity and everyone else just revolves around you.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:30 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

You should probably read what I said because I didn't knock your choices down or second-guess your life, I merely questioned the conclusions you drew.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your Political Journey
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:13 am  
User avatar

Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4308
Location: Winchester Virginia
Offline

Aestu wrote:
If you think a few paragraphs is an "essay" then you need to develop more patience and discipline, and watch less TV. The very fact people think this way is historically unprecedented and psychologically aberrant, and it's a major factor in the decline of our country.

No one can make understand a problem or make good decisions about anything if they dismiss anything more than a paragraph long as TLDR.

I am sorry that life is not as simple as you'd prefer.


Say what you will, but your name is as synonymous with TL;DR as Amy Winehouse is with drug abuse. Not being able to sift through your unnecessarily verbose ramblings isn't evidence of a lack of patience and discipline on the part of myself or anyone else here so much as it is evidence that your prose is boring, tiresome, and excessive.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

World of Warcraft phpBB template "WoWMoonclaw" created by MAËVAH (ex-MOONCLAW) (v3.0.8.0) - wowcr.net : World of Warcraft styles & videos
© World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. wowcr.net is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group