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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:59 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
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I love this game.


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:54 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Fallout: New Vegas lately really made me reflect on the quality, or lack thereof, of WoW. Yes, FNV is a single-player game. Yes, it's a grimy, violent shooter, not a brightly colored all-audiences RPG.

The comparison is still valid because FNV does at least three things very well that Cataclysm does very badly: questing, world environment, and player engagement.

There are no "kill ten bears" quests in FNV. A lot of the quests are slightly embellished versions of what a lot of Vanilla quests were, which was "person A wants you to talk to / take a box to / kill person B". This is an approach to questing Blizzard devs have decided they don't like, but it's actually a lot less grindy because it engages the player in the story and opens up the world. Almost all quests have multiple solutions and multiple endings, or are execution based; some are pretty challenging. There's a few quests where aggroing an NPC at different times affects the story (for example, if you jump Mortimer before he finishes his speech, his reaction - and that of the audience - is different than if you let him finish).

Bloodsplattering, gunfire and grimy palette has no bearing on this particular element of the gameplay, and there's no reason questing in a general-audiences MMO can't be this good.

World environment is extremely buggy due to lazy and rushed development, with a lot of serious clipping/falling through world issues (which also affect WoW to much too great a degree given its greater simplicity). But again, it does something very well that Cataclysm does badly: encourages exploration and open-ended play. You walk out into the empty wasteland and you see rocks and shrubs positioned randomly, organically. Shacks in the middle of nowhere, you can go inside and see what's in there. There's just a ton of stuff out there, and unlike in WotLK/Cata, there's a ton of space, there isn't the sense of excessive crowding that has affected post-TBC content.

Player engagement - everything in the game is a choice. FNV is much less reliant on "Essential" NPCs than Fallout 3, but the game is still structured so that almost no decision the player can make permanently screws him over. If you kill a bunch of NCR guys, you can just join the Legion, or vice versa. If both hate you, you can join Yes Man. If you kill him, he'll just pop back up and apologize, for reasons that are both humorous and internally consistent. If you wipe out a minor faction, the ending will reflect that.

This is opposed to WoW, where basically every NPC that isn't a generic mob has some sort of protection and no decision has any real weight besides deleting something a GM won't restore. Yet FNV shows that sort of excessive lack of decision-making isn't necessary to make a game that doesn't really let players screw themselves over.

FNV also does something much better than Fallout 3: it eliminates the bland and totally unbalanced gameplay of Fallout 3 endgame world environment, where walking across the wasteland is just a bunch of unimaginative random mob spawns for no reason, mobs have retarded amounts of health and either nuke you instantly or have to be disarmed then kited around for 10 minutes while you empty a dozen clips into them, or cheesed by pitting them against other NPCs of opposing faction or exploiting terrible pathing.

F3 really had the same problem WoW did, which was excessive survivability and too many ways to get out of fixes (stimpack spamming, knockdown cheesefest, dart gun, stealth suit). FNV solved it by making everything hit much harder relative to both player AND NPC health, and increasing the role of cooldowns and choice in player survival. Stimpacks aren't spammable, opponents don't have a zillion HP, consumables aren't unlimited, but are more varied and powerful and really make a difference in winning or losing difficult encounters.

Same problem in WoW: cooldown/consumable use is pretty homogenized, and also pretty weak. Raiders are sticklers for flasks, but they act like Cata is Vanilla/TBC, or similar to a very few numerical encounters since (mostly in Ulduar or ToC) where consumables really did make a huge difference, when most modern encounters are mostly balanced around specific mechanics.

FNV also does achievements much better than in WoW. They aren't grindy or annoying - most are earned incrementally, and well-rounded general gameplay will award most of them.

It's funny to think that if you took WoW's general style and appearance, combined with FNV's depth of play, chronological mechanics, and visual/world detail, you'd actually have one really amazing game.

Now if that game were set in the Kingdom Hearts universe, you'd have a game to end all other forms of entertainment.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:00 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Also, Toaster is win. It's stupid how Bethesda makes every DLC nothing but a maze of endless catwalks to economize on content, though.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:41 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:39 pm
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Too bad Obsidian got forced to use Bethesda's shitty Gamebryo engine and Old World Blues is probably the best DLC to any game ever.


RETIRED.
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:42 pm  
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 pm
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Apparently the new engine for skyrim is awesome and not full of suck and fail so hopefully Skyrim won't need to be modded beyond comprehension to be playable.

11.11.11 wtb

also apparently blethesda animators have discovered how to animate 3rd person animations. here's to hoping.


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:47 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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Why buy skyrim when I can just wait for FO4 instead?


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:48 pm  
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Dragons.

I've always been a high fantasy fan over any other genre.


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:04 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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You can hit your dragon with a sword, I'll sneak around in a sunhat punching deathclaws with a shotgun fist while going bonkers on Psycho and Bear Meat.


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:15 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Mns wrote:
You can hit your dragon with a sword, I'll sneak around in a sunhat punching deathclaws with a shotgun fist while going bonkers on Psycho and Bear Meat.


Deathclaws two-shot through heavy armor on Very Hard.

Mns wrote:
Old World Blues is probably the best DLC to any game ever.


OWB has some good points but it's not amazing.

Like I said, waaaaaay too many catwalks. The dialogue is funny at times but way too heavy on double entendres and grossly long-winded (and I say that). The pathing/terrain is also really buggy. This becomes more apparent on higher difficulties where whether you live or die is based off pathing RNG. Several times I saw Nightstalkers go right through walls and force fields.

The DLC feels too homogenized and kind of shallow. Every point on the map has exactly one, occasionally two, special item, and it's almost always laying in the open on some random object. Every mob type has one "boss-type" mob that doesn't really do anything special and isn't a major challenge, just the same mob with more HP, including the last boss which felt really anticlimactic. They talk up the giant robo scorp but it's just a bigger version of the little ones, but with such bad pathing it's way easier than the randomly spawning ones.

Granted, all the FO DLCs have been pretty lackluster. OWB is probably the best of the shades of grey. Anchorage and Dead Money were horrible.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:31 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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oh hi post apocalyptic Oblivion.


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:39 am  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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FO3 and Oblivion are basically the same game, considering they're both abortions.


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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:45 am  
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French Faggot
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Mns wrote:
FO3 and Oblivion are basically the same game, considering they're both abortions.


FINALLY SOMEONE NOTICES.

(FNV is actually good, though)


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:46 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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It is - buggy as hell though, and the armor itemization sucks.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:57 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Also, it's interesting how the northern Big MT area is very similar to the squidgoat starting zone. Even the music is similar - slow string with alternating/superior whistle.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: So I Got Fallout: New Vegas...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:01 pm  
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Mns wrote:
FO3 and Oblivion are basically the same game, considering they're both abortions.


FINALLY SOMEONE NOTICES.

(FNV is actually good, though)


They were both good once you modded the bad out of them D:


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