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 Post subject: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:15 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I've often said that the problems with black America are social in nature and that there is a deep undercurrent of racism in America masked behind complex psychological mazes and political correctness that prevents these issues from getting resolved. I talk about how we need "social approaches" to solve problems, and people like Eturnal and Usd assume this means cutting checks and hiring bureaucrats. I've never really fleshed out what I mean, and I'm bored and feel like going on a self-righteous, pedantic monologue, something I don't do very often, so I think I'll do just that.

-Hire more police and put one on every corner - literally.
-Create a new federal secret police, with wide investigative powers over other organizations.
-Universal daycare and medical care.
-Aggressive primary education.
-Reintroduce conscription.


Hire more police and put one on every corner - literally.

This may seem an odd suggestion considering how critical I am of the police. But contrary to what people believe, I do appreciate the utility of the police. The problem, in my eyes, is that the cops are usually preoccupied with other things than their mission, like harassing random people and eating donuts.

Cops don't do as much as they could to bring the crime rate down in troubled areas because they are lazy and cowardly by nature - nowhere are there more cops at the local Dunkin' Donuts or jacking off in their cruiser than in troubled, high-crime areas, because the job is not so easy there and provides less opportunities to power-trip without the danger of getting one's head blown off or beaten to a bloody pulp.

I believe the key, then, is to change that equation. Fewer police should be mobile; their role should be less responding to high-profile crimes and more ensuring physical security in a given area. Streets should be kept free of drug peddlers, thieves, muggers, and common criminals, so people can go about their business, and more importantly, so the next generation of black people grow up in a stable, secure environment.

The police should be de-militarized - uniforms should be blue again instead of black, ranks should be redefined in civilian terms - "patrol" instead of "sergeant", "supervisor" instead of "lieutenant", "director" instead of "commander", dress code should ban sunglasses, police kennels should be closed, and firearms, heavy weapons and riot gear should be restricted to times of riot or insurrection. This will make the police more a "law and order" institution and more suited to bringing crime down through intercessory action and general security.

I firmly believe that both the pervasiveness of criminal culture and the attitudes of authority are the driving force behind much of the characteristic attitudes of black America - the lack of a sense of enfranchisement and terrible instability and culture of fear that undermines a sense of responsibility and self-respect. Ensuring civil and lawful society is more important than bringing the murder rate down.

Create a new federal secret police, with wide investigative powers over other organizations.

Yes, we already have the FBI. What I propose here is a powerful, anonymous organization with police powers only over county, state and federal employees, and management of incorporated businesses. Against elected officials and private citizens, they have no police powers.

These agents would be anonymous and known and addressed only by number. They would be assigned by lottery, every two years, to each ZIP code, and wear a mask and a wire whenever in public. They (and their families) would live on large, federally owned resorts, be forbidden from owning any other property, and be required to eat nothing but MREs and cafeteria food. They would be paid very well and receive a generous pension. As with the Secret Service, employment would be invitation-only and recruitment would be mostly amongst experienced lawyers and judges. The agents would be accountable only to the chairman of the agency and to the President.

Imagine a cross between Gandhi and Judge Dredd.

The function of this organization would be similar to a tribune of the plebs or political commissar - to protect citizens against their government, to prevent corruption and laziness, and to ensure the political reliability of the state apparatus.

I believe that such an organization would be vital to improving the lot of the unfortunate in this country by forcing public employees to care about doing their jobs properly, something they usually don't if their audience is the poor and disenfranchised.

Universal daycare and medical care.

Unlike most people who talk about those things, I'm not interested in the plight of women, or a desire to see people be healthier. My goal here is to make society more stable: I believe that children are best raised such that they are not perceived as a burden - this is a major problem with black America - not for the sake of the parents, but because that sort of treatment damages the child's long-term social identity and makes them slavish and irresponsible. I believe that universal daycare and medical care will improve the moral quality of the next generation - again - by ensuring stability and enfranchisement.

Aggressive primary education.

Primary education isn't working because the system vacillates: schools are big corrals with no clear mission and jaded, lazy staff. I would fix this by:

-introducing a rigid, standardized, fundamental-based federal curriculum
-introducing school uniforms and standardizing them across the entire country; the uniforms would include kepi
-introducing federal academies at the elementary level for children identified as gifted
-administrative identification of all students only by ID number and never by name
-banning all non-baseline school programs
-banning all non-fundamental education
-banning private education
-extreme emphasis on both conformity and competition, through things like military-style marching practice and forms of academic competition deliberately designed to pit students directly against each other, such as "Around The World" and spelling bees

The goal here is to take the concept behind busing to the Nth degree. I believe that if students of all races, all genders, all backgrounds are forced to both cooperate and compete, and are not permitted to express any sense of affiliation except that which is allowed by the school, attitudes will shift and the next generation will learn important skills such as sportsmanship, discipline and pugnacity. I believe this in turn will improve the employment and paternal skills of black America.

Reintroduce conscription.

My notions of how to fix society are conceived on the principle that there is a reciprocal relationship between enfranchisement and confidence. People will be more willing to defend a state and society if it provides for them, but the opposite is also true.

Today's professional army was created as a sort of compromise after the Korean and Vietnam Wars - young people were sent off to die in unpopular wars, and the social turmoil this created was ultimately resolved through a professional army. I believe this was an inappropriate response, and what really should have happened was more national soul-searching about those wars. So today we have the Gulf and Iraq wars, which probably wouldn't have happened if we had conscription. More importantly, I believe that ending conscription has created a dramatic gulf between not only the armed forces and the population at large, but also between the government and its citizens. I think this is a major, but overlooked, contributor to the disaffection black America has for the government.

Furthermore, our professional army is very reliant on technology and training to do its job, as opposed to the armed forces of countries like Israel or India or China, which do not issue heavy body armor or expensive electronics to their conscripts because that would be uneconomical and require more training than is practical. As the economy declines, our military style must adapt (the Romans did the same thing in their later years, watering down equipment quality as revenue dried up).

The 21st century will be a chaotic one - much more so than any in a millennium - and this trend will affect our society. Therefore, to ensure civil tranquility, I believe that strong occupational forces will be necessary to ensure stability both within and outside our borders, and therefore, America must make the shift to a police army, backed up not by technology but sheer number of bodies. If you doubt this, go look at West African pirates or the situation in Iraq or Afghanistan. If we do not emphasize global security, the chaos will spread, and - within our adult lifetimes - aggravate the widening divisions in American society.

In conclusion, it's a testament to how bad video games these days are that writing massive walls of text is more fun than playing them.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:38 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I like black people. I think everyone should own one.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:44 pm  
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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:46 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Talking to me or him, Rathmoon?

=P


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:01 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Usdk wrote:
I like black people. I think everyone should own one.

I've been using this joke since late middle school and it's never gotten old yet. <3
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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:12 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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none of my slaves have ever gotten old either!

maybe i'm working them too hard.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:06 pm  
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One and three are mostly reasonable. Two is fine, provided that "no" is a possible answer from a recruitment target, and that the powers never expand beyond what you're suggesting.

Strongly disagree with four and five.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:27 pm  
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As much as I hate the "reparations" nonsense, maybe "40 acres and a mule" would fix the problem more effectively. A large part of the problem with inner-city dwellers, black or not, is cultural. Moving these people into a different cultural surrounding, isolating them from the defective and detrimental one they live in, would work wonders on at least the younger members of the demographic. Immersing a family group, even if it is only a single mother and her children, in a rural community where crime is frowned upon instead of embraced, and male responsibility for offspring are more valued would set a better example for the youth that are currently submersed in the inner-city culture. The "reparations" angle would help sell the idea, but I see a big problem in how to appropriate the necessary resources to put it into action, and with how to allocate those resources so you're not just moving all the old problems to a new location. You wouldn't want to expend the effort/resources and just create a sub-community of the same old thing in the boondocks.

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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:35 pm  
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:12 am
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Quote:
Hire more police and put one on every corner - literally.


Your suggestion would start an absolute war in the larger cities. Heavily armed gangs aren't going to give up a very lucrative racket just because some rookie cop is on a street corner, not to mention a lot of dealing doesn't get done on the corners, but in the houses and apartment complexes. The organizations that move the big quantities, they aren't usually the ones moving them from the corners. Not to mention "firearms, heavy weapons and riot gear should be restricted" So you want to put unarmed police on ever street corner in crime-ridden, gang-infested neighborhoods.

Quote:
Cops don't do as much as they could to bring the crime rate down in troubled areas because they are lazy and cowardly by nature - nowhere are there more cops at the local Dunkin' Donuts or jacking off in their cruiser than in troubled, high-crime areas, because the job is not so easy there and provides less opportunities to power-trip without the danger of getting one's head blown off or beaten to a bloody pulp.


You are extremely ignorant on the subject of police. I would get a more pertinent description of string theory from a 4 year old than I would from your butt-hurt opinion of cops.

Do you know how many arrests are made versus how many offenders serve time? Do you know how many cases get plea deals with a slap on the wrist? Prosecutors are over-worked as it is, and we're in a system where the cops don't make arrests in certain areas if they don't have too. Some inner city areas only see less than half of their arrests go before a judge. It's simply not worth prosecuting small time criminals. Bigger gangs, the ones who move a ton of drugs and commit the bigger offenses, they're not gonna be brought down by one bust. You stop and frisk a bunch of guys hanging out on a corner and you'll find one guy with drugs, one guy with money, and one guy with a gun. Even if you arrest them all you'll only get the guy with the drugs and the guy with the gun (and then only if it's illegal). The rest might get loitering but more likely they'll just be released. You won't solve the crime problems in the poor neighborhoods until you change drug laws and free up the legal system.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:37 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I think aestu's not knowing shit about cops has been well established.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:32 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Dvergar wrote:
Your suggestion would start an absolute war in the larger cities. Heavily armed gangs aren't going to give up a very lucrative racket just because some rookie cop is on a street corner, not to mention a lot of dealing doesn't get done on the corners, but in the houses and apartment complexes. The organizations that move the big quantities, they aren't usually the ones moving them from the corners. Not to mention "firearms, heavy weapons and riot gear should be restricted" So you want to put unarmed police on ever street corner in crime-ridden, gang-infested neighborhoods.


If your argument against effective policing is that criminals will fight back then I say you are part of the problem.

Difficult problems beg difficult answers; there's no easy way to solve these kinds of problems, but solved they must be.

Dvergar wrote:
Do you know how many arrests are made versus how many offenders serve time? Do you know how many cases get plea deals with a slap on the wrist? Prosecutors are over-worked as it is, and we're in a system where the cops don't make arrests in certain areas if they don't have too.


Due process, QQ moar, alternative is martial law and if you think that works look at countries like China or Colombia.

Dvergar wrote:
Some inner city areas only see less than half of their arrests go before a judge. It's simply not worth prosecuting small time criminals.


If more police are to be hired then more prosecutors and magistrates should be as well.

I flatly disagree with your contention that it's "not worth" dealing with small crime. Small crime is the fundamental cause of major crime, and small crime, not murders, are what give inner-cities their characteristic difficulties.

Again, this is the "part of the problem" mentality.

Dvergar wrote:
Bigger gangs, the ones who move a ton of drugs and commit the bigger offenses, they're not gonna be brought down by one bust. You stop and frisk a bunch of guys hanging out on a corner and you'll find one guy with drugs, one guy with money, and one guy with a gun. Even if you arrest them all you'll only get the guy with the drugs and the guy with the gun (and then only if it's illegal). The rest might get loitering but more likely they'll just be released. You won't solve the crime problems in the poor neighborhoods until you change drug laws and free up the legal system.


Letting the criminals win is not the answer. Drugs are by their nature socially destructive and saying "We don't have the will to enforce the laws and build a better society, so we'll shrug and let these people stay held back."

Your take on what I say - this isn't worthwhile, that can't be done, we should accept the realities of difficult environments and not try to change them - fit the general profile and your personal image as the typical self-righteous liberal who isn't really interested in actually solving problems, only maintaining an image as morally superior to those who recognize the grey realities of life.

There is no such thing as compassion without the will to act on said compassion. A real desire to confront the ugly realities of our world and make a better one.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:41 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Jubbergun wrote:
As much as I hate the "reparations" nonsense, maybe "40 acres and a mule" would fix the problem more effectively. A large part of the problem with inner-city dwellers, black or not, is cultural. Moving these people into a different cultural surrounding, isolating them from the defective and detrimental one they live in, would work wonders on at least the younger members of the demographic. Immersing a family group, even if it is only a single mother and her children, in a rural community where crime is frowned upon instead of embraced, and male responsibility for offspring are more valued would set a better example for the youth that are currently submersed in the inner-city culture. The "reparations" angle would help sell the idea, but I see a big problem in how to appropriate the necessary resources to put it into action, and with how to allocate those resources so you're not just moving all the old problems to a new location. You wouldn't want to expend the effort/resources and just create a sub-community of the same old thing in the boondocks.


David Copperfield? Or urban renewal?

Sherlock Holmes said something I strongly agree with, which is that the image of rural communities as fundamentally lower crime is a myth. Rural communities are lower crime, he says - and I agree - because people can commit their crimes and depravities in private, and people who are by their nature criminal are kept out of contact with other people through sheer reduction in population density. That doesn't make them any more productive or any less inclined towards civil behavior.

40 acres and a mule worked 150 years ago. Today, with modern agriculture, they'd get toasted; there's no way they could compete with agribusiness, third-worlders, or be able to learn from scratch all the finer points of modern farming. Modern farming requires significant knowledge of chemistry and biology, and those things can't be learned without a significant primary education. Agribusinesses get around that through massive economy of scale, allowing very few people to do all the thinking. That doesn't work with the "40 acres and a mule" philosophy.

There's also the fact that farming requires significant discipline, and human nature being what it is, people won't make the choice between adapting or dying: they'll do what people who don't want to be farmers do in that sort of situation - have always done - which is become bandits. And that's bad.

Also, if you're talking about moving people around...voluntarily? involuntarily? under what criteria? How do we prevent that from turning into a gulag system? Even voluntary migration is a problem; go read about the founding of New Orleans and how John Law hookwinked people into coming there. How would that work within the framework of rule of law, and what's to stop it from being forced exile for people we don't like?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:42 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Yuratuhl wrote:
One and three are mostly reasonable. Two is fine, provided that "no" is a possible answer from a recruitment target, and that the powers never expand beyond what you're suggesting.

Strongly disagree with four and five.


Do you disagree because you think they're causally ineffective, or do you disagree because you think they'll create problems worse than what they will solve, if so why?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:48 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Sounds like it's time to run money printing up to 300% capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: How Aestu Would Fix Black America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:51 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
If your argument against effective policing is that criminals will fight back then I say you are part of the problem.


Your answer is "let some new guys get killed, respond with force" instead of "severely reduce the myriad reason kids join gangs and ultimately destroy the gang through the success of those who would otherwise be members".

If you throw unarmed cops on street corners of neighborhoods with a heavy presence of violent gangs, exactly what do you think is going to happen?

Quote:
Due process, QQ moar, alternative is martial law and if you think that works look at countries like China or Colombia.


If a cop arrests kids for dealing, but the kids weren't holding drugs, they walk. Doesn't matter if they were the money guy, the lookout, or the carrier who just delivered to the corner. What is the point in a cop continuing to arrest kids for things they won't get charged for? And while they're busy filling out 3-6 hours of paperwork their short-staffed precinct is now even shorter staffed.

Quote:
Letting the criminals win is not the answer. Drugs are by their nature socially destructive and saying "We don't have the will to enforce the laws and build a better society, so we'll shrug and let these people stay held back."


I'm telling you what is happening, why cops aren't in the ghettos busting heads, and why they aren't picking up every small time dealer. You STILL don't seem to grasp that the problem is not on the end of the officers (though they do grow disillusioned with a system that does nothing to support the work they are doing on the streets), but with what happens after the arrests are made.

Quote:
Your take on what I say - this isn't worthwhile, that can't be done, we should accept the realities of difficult environments and not try to change them


Infact, I never said something can't be done. What I said just doesn't work with the wall of willful ignorance you've erected around your hate for cops, so you need to re-imagine the conversation. There was a phrase for that...


Dvergar /
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