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Here's the thing...I know I'd be way more useful in a war sitting behind a computer screen and directing missiles, or sitting in a command center planning troop movements and shit. Hell I'd be more useful on aircraft carrier working the control tower.

Call me a pussy, but like you Eturnal...the brainy bros need to work on the brainy shit. You want your big tough guys who may not be academically gifted (no disrespect to jarheads, I'm sure many of them are quite intelligent) on the front lines.

I mean, come on, do you honestly think my scrawny ass would be useful in the field? No way. It's not that I'm too pussy to serve, I just know where my strengths lie.
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Also, I sure as fuck wouldn't serve today because we're in wars we can't possibly win that I don't support. I support our troops, but they are dying for the wrong reasons. I'll be damned if I'll give my blood for oil.

Now, if there were ever a real threat/attack on America (pretty much there hasn't been one since World War 2), then you bet your ass I'd want to help out and defend my country.

Oh, so you went through training and balked at the last minute, using school as an excuse?

There's nothing stopping you from redeploying (except for your lack of a spine, of course), considering everyone who doesn't want to throw their lives away for things they don't agree with are blatant pussies. To start throwing words around like that, you might actually want to set yourself apart from the people you want to send off to war by actually fighting yourself.

PS: Got a real kick out of the fact that you were in the military and never got deployed, but yet rant and rave about entitlements, even though the US military is the biggest welfare program in the world.

EDIT: Patriotism and Religion are basically the same thing: Utterly useless in modern society and the pretense for acts of pure greed, malice, and hatred.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Pretty much this. You're fooling yourself if you think all our honorable men and women are dying for just causes. Let me ask you, if we weren't in Afghanistan and Iraq right now, would America be in any more danger? Are they really protecting us from terrorists?

Again, I support our troops, but it's our leaders who are sending them off to die for unjust causes.

Come you masters of war
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.

So if we're going to war for oil, how come the oil prices haven't gone down?

and theres plenty to do in the military that doesnt' include going to war. for example, katrina rescue missions.

I wouldn't sign up for the military if i had a kid either. Not that i ever had any interest in joining up anyway.

You're about to get educated on how the Guard works, so pay attention.

The National Guard is paid for by the state which is guards - in my case, Virginia. Our contract is to the state and the State pays our one-weekend-a-month salary (which for a lowly E3, is piss). The only way the Guard members get paid from the Federal government is when our orders come from the Army. Mine never came from the Army... they came from the Governor/Adj. Gen., so there wasn't much I can do about it.

The reason I couldn't/can't re-enlist is because my discharge was uncharacterized - Not dishonorable or honorable. When I signed up for the guard, I had two recruiters sitting at the table with both myself and my father, who was a recruiter for the Marine Corp. at one point. My father urged me to make sure all their promises (bonuses, education, etc.) were written into the contract so I had the guys write everything down - full tuition, signing bonus, etc. When I came back, things were fine for awhile (before I started school) but then the State of Virginia started having budget problems and they said they weren't going to pay for anyone's education or bonuses (because that's what responsible governments do to balance their budgets - they make cuts). Since I had it written in my contract, I went up the chain of command saying I wanted them to uphold their end of the contract since I'm upholding mine. My CO and the JAG took the fight to the highest levels of the VA ARNG (with the support of my congresswoman) and instead of paying out the contractual benefits, they decided to just let me go since I didn't receive any bonus or education assistance. One day I received separation papers in the mail and that was that.

The comparison of the Military to a Welfare program falls short when you consider there is a service provided by the servicemen... but most entitlement recipients do nothing to get their payments. My service was to the State of Virginia; I worked security projects, I aided people during Blizzards, I went to the mountains for wildfires and floods. I provided something for the state and in return I got $180/mo.


Not everyone is super-soldier front-line material. There's a reason I didn't go into an infantry division... but engineering is just as demanding, I guess. For the smaller and weaker types, there is always the airforce. That's where all the Tech MOS are, anyways. UAV, SATCOM, Aircraft Repair, Pilots, etc. If I could go back in I would go AF just because I've been working so closely with them outside the military.

If only the economy were that simple.



Agreed. And according to Eturnal, you are now a pussy because you have no desire to join the military.

That is the point. That is why I think conscription is a good thing.

Our leaders will be less likely to start such wars if the electorate is being asked to pay in blood.

You say you "support the troops" but what does that really mean? You won't support them with your body and yes that is the only support that counts. No "good thought" can compare to getting blown up, whether it's you or anyone else.

Doesn't your view prove my point - that professional armies, fighting unpopular wars, necessarily divide people from state and army? That can't be a good thing in the long run.



This is exactly why I want conscription.

The military can be a beneficial source of structure and purpose in people's lives, and people often take something with them after leaving. Just because you get drafted doesn't mean you're in the infantry. Then again, it could do some people who think they're better than that some good to get taken down a notch. That, too, is a good thing, at a purely personal level.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

So, in other words, you think you're somehow better than the other people who make those so-called "sacrifices" WITHOUT expecting exorbitant returns paid for by TAXPAYERS.

You bitch about "entitlement" and "sacrifice" and "handouts from taxpayers" but woe lest the shoe should move to the other foot.

Hypocrite.



Park Rangers and Rent-A-Cops do that and cost a fraction as much.
And they don't ask to be lionized as national heroes.

You criticize expensive, inefficient government pork barrel and make-work but that's exactly what you were employed on. "Providing a service" is no different than the Bridge To Nowhere.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Where did he say not being in the military means you're a pussy?

you can teach someone who is a pussy to not be a pussy in the military, but he never said non-military are universal pussies.

You're so cute when you're projecting.

100% false.

Courage cannot be taught, and soldiers in general are some of the most cowardly people on the planet.

Soldiers will never admit it but most serve because they are too cowardly to face life without absolute authority managing every aspect of their lives.

What the military does teach is duty and teamwork.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Not at all. When I said the country was a bunch of pussies, I wasn't the one that said, "I served in the military for a bit so I'm not a pussy - the rest of you are." If you recall, someone tried calling me a pussy because I didn't serve, which turns out not to be the case. Are you guys going to tell me we're a stronger, more emboldened country than we were several decades back? This country (and I think this was said by someone on this forum) has too many people that would just lay down and take an invasion rather than fight to protect our land and loved ones. We're all about "peace" but no one wants to sacrifice anything to get there. Conscription, like you said, would probably teach these people to be stronger and more apt to look adversity in the eye rather than just lay down and take it in the ass.

Also, I think there is a distinction between "entitlement" and "paycheck", where people like the Rent-a-cops, Park Rangers and Guardsmen collect a "paycheck" for their service, much like the lawyer, chef, taxi driver or educator collects a pay for their service. Entitlement recipients aren't really in the same bunch; welfare and medicaid collect because they're poor, not because they're doing something for the state. (This has been something Battletard [maybe it was him] and I have been saying for awhile - get a public service from entitlement recipients. Not once did I ask to be looked at as a hero. Never have I boasted about my military experience EXCEPT when some little internet e-bitch wants to talk down to me as if I didn't have the backbone to enlist.

You talk about strength and boldness but you don't know what those things mean.

Strength? Militarily, definitely, we've never been stronger in relative or absolute terms. Not only do we have more powerful weapons, but the USSR is gone, and EU military budgets have never been lower relative to our own. But strength isn't military...it's cultural, social, diplomatic, economic...but that's not your frame of reference now is it?

The greatest test of boldness - of courage - is to combat the greatest evils - ignorance, injustice, the status quo. Were we a bolder people...? Yes, but only because our willingness to do that was greater - the Clean Air Act, the Civil Rights Act, the Endangered Species act - that took strength we no longer have.





This isn't 1812. Nor are we living in an HG Wells novel.



No, more like those bureaucrats who sit around collecting paychecks and leaving at 2PM, or those $30/hour guys in orange suits holding signs or chewing the fat while six men are assigned to a job that requires one.

That's the government employment you malign. And are a beneficiary of.



Hypocrite. You call other pussies, try to hold yourself up as superior, then pull out false modesty, which is the rhetorical equivalent of rolling over and playing dead.

That is courage - and cowardice. That is the courage our country lacks.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Oh, Aestu can see the future!


I think we all benefit from the government in some ways. As I've stated a million times before - I think we need to shrink the size of the government (to help get rid of some of the shit you're talking about). Never have I said I think we should absolve the government, get rid of all its services and plunge the country into one without rule or law.


Yep, time for you to see sig, for no other reason than you being an idiot.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Always figured Eturnal would be one of those cocky guardsmen. All talk pretending they are tough shit but nothing to back it up. Just doing it for the easy benefits. Lawl Eturnal on Military welfare. Trash.