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The latter.



I'm a man who values and respects humbleness. Status symbols are by their very nature antithetical to it. I'm not impressed by a player who flaunts his or her legendary weapon in Stormwind, or feels the need to shout their Arena Rating in trade so all can now how "leet" they are.

However, I would be impressed by a player who did fantastic DPS (or healing, or tanking) in every encounter yet never felt the need to post meters or brag about it. I would be impressed by a player who is truly skilled at PvP...defeats almost everyone and says nothing more than "Good duel" after the fact.

IRL, people put too much value in things, which I think is an ill of society in general. If you are financially successful, why feel the need to purchase a fancy car to drive around town? I see these people here in downtown Chicago who go to the swankiest neighborhood and park their Rolls Royce right in front of busy restaurants just so everyone can see what they are driving. I don't envy them, I pity them. If you derive your self worth from material objects, or feel the need to show everyone and their brother what you have, then clearly you are seeking affirmation, which is pathetic.

You shouldn't need a symbol to affirm your status. It's like "smart" people who want to shove their PhD in your face every chance they get. Or the Harvard grad who never shuts up about the fact that he went to Harvard. If you are truly smart, others around you will know it eventually, and you shouldn't need a symbol to "prove" it.

True pride comes from within...everything else is just noise that I would rather ignore than respect.

What else are the wealthy people supposed to spend their money on?! Fancy cars are where it's at bro!

It's not about the things. It's about what they mean.
It's a game - a MMO. Competition is the name of the game.

No different than Briseis in the Illiad.

Besides, isn't the greater fault that you begrudge them?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Deriving meaning from things is the crux of my issue with status symbols.



Yep - just like capitalism...how much currency can I acquire? How much shit can I amass that will make other people envious? I prefer competition where there are no trophies, where the reward is internal and merely a victory for victory's sake. My opinion on this was formed in large part due to WoW and it's emphasis on status symbols. After so many expansions, leet gear getting replaced, new rare mounts to be obtained, and so on...I started to realize what a racket all these "status symbols" were.

Let me ask you, what made you happiest in WoW? Was it getting your legendary weapons? Was it acquiring the Ashes? Was it server transferring for a fancy new mount?

I know what my happiest moment in WoW was. After days upon days upon hours of wiping to Lady Vashj in TBC, the guild I was in at the time finally downed her. It was a ridiculous fight, poison was everywhere and we only just survived. The cheering on vent, the teamwork, the happiness...that was what felt good. I didn't need the T5 helm to feel the accomplishment (though at the time I thought I did).

You want to know what happened with WoW? Blizzard focused too much on giving everyone shinys and status symbols. They introduced LFD which destroyed the aspects of teamwork and friendship and merely served as a vessel for logging on, running a random, getting some badges that could be converted into some shiny bullshit. They nerfed encounters beyond all recognition. They made it so everyone could see and defeat every boss (See: ICC nerfs). That's what status symbols give you...nothing. Emptiness. It's a hollow victory.



I begrudge only the symbols, I pity the people who believe in them.

The things you own end up owning you

Is Aestu your character or are you Aestu's player?

So you think people buy nice things for themselves not because they can, or because they want it, or because it'll make them happy, or as a testament to themselves for their efforts... but you think they do it because they're like, "I'm going to make Azelma envious of my new car!" I doubt the people who drive nice cars give two shits about you or what you think.

We're talking about "status symbols" here...so people who buy stuff most definitely do it to show off.

its a lose/lose no matter what u do. rich people are ridiculed no matter what they do with their money. hoard and be called a scrooge, spend it and be called wasteful, give it away and be called ungrateful.

tbh, the people that bitch and moan about someone having a nice car irritate me more than the person driving the car. i go to car shows to check out all the cool shit people have done with their money, not so i can run around begrudging people that have what i cant get.



also, invincible is where its at.

In the interest of full disclosure, if I wanted to buy a fancy car, I could and would. I guess it's not about having the fancy car that pisses me off...drive what you want to. It's parking your Rolls Royce out front of some Yuppie restaurant and standing there looking smug that irritates me. Again, the "status symbol" aspect.

Where is he supposed to park his car? He's not allowed to stand around his car and wait for people without you thinking he's doing it to rub it in your face you're not driving a RR?

I wish I had a picture of this guy so I could explain. He looked kind of like one of these guys:



He was also saying "sup" to every woman that walked by, winking and carrying on like the douche he was. He definitely wasn't waiting for anyone because I observed this act go on for 5-10 minutes before he got in and left.

PS: The fact that I was dining at a swanky yuppie restaurant is irrelevant, so don't even go there.

guy being a douche has nothing to do with how much money he has or car he drives.

doucheiness is because of the person

So, what we've identified is this:

1) If you could afford his car (or an equally expensive car), you'd buy it if you wanted it... but you're mad at him for parking it and standing outside.
2) You were dining at the swanky restaurant. He was parking outside of it.
3) He was saying Hi to the ladies as they walked by. You weren't.
4) You're suggesting his appearance (which isn't far from what I wear on a regular basis, minus the popped collar) somehow adds to his high-class status symbol... so, I'm guessing you went to this high-brow sophisto dinner in rags?

Yer being pretty hard on him for doing things you would do if you could.

1) I pity him for thinking his car gives him status. Again, "status symbol" is what we're discussing here.
2) Yes
3) True - but I was sitting with a lady in the restaurant, so why would I feel the need to make obnoxious cat calls to passing ladies on the street?
4) Nah, his appearance was just douchy and added to the whole status-symbol-obsessed-douchenozzle package

I assure you, I would not do those things.

Then go play Super Mario Bros. or Ninja Gaiden or some other demanding single-player game. That's what they're all about.



They are only a racket if you let them be - or if Blizzard tries to do what too many schools do, which is give everyone a cup just for showing up to the exclusion of real competition.



Getting the Azure Drake. Definitely.

I worked so damn hard for that thing. No one man in WoW ever made such heroic efforts to get a mount as I did.

And I challenge you - show me the man who could have done what I did.

Getting the Ashes was a notch on the belt by comparison.

Runner-up was Argent Defender. I am still grateful for the determined efforts of those who made it possible - including a few people who didn't need it but chipped in anyway. So few people actually pugged it, even people who might have wanted the title or something, or had their sets.

I did not passively wait for someone else to get the ball rolling.
I made the choice to take control of my destiny.
That, for me, was what made it a triumph.



That's not a problem with status symbols, that's a problem with trying to equalize status through implied falsehood.



How can you begrudge that which you do not believe in?



That's a very interesting question =)

As I said, I see Aestu as heir to the tradition of Aeneas or Cecil - a hero in an epic story.

Aestu is my character just as Aeneas was once Virgil's character.
I am Aestu's player just as I was once Cecil's player.

Writers often create their heroes in their own image. And anyone who's ever read or written an epic knows that a well-written character has a way of taking on a life of its own.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

For what it's worth, I despise people who wear designer clothes and drive big SUVs for the same reason I despise people who show off welfare epics as if they're awesome. It's not hard to buy overpriced shit at the store, and it's contemptible to flash it around as if you're better than people with a bit of common sense.

And like welfare epics, the driving force is quintessentially American.

Where, Azelma, you seem opposed to status symbols as a matter of principle, I draw a distinction between legitimate status symbols and false status symbols. Whether the claim is on par with the reality, or whether it's just "bling".

Somebeach - before the climactic Anub pull, Vigil gently encouraged me to dip Anub in favor of getting an Invincible. I politely declined. No regrets. At all. And really I have to respect them for not being dicks about it.

Ironically, if I had taken them up on it, they wouldn't have gotten their Crusader steeds either. I ate four pcolds while doing more damage than most of their DPS. Funny how that works.

Also see: Tempest, Gwen Stefani

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.