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ToR is WoW.

Also, EA's Origin platform might end up killing ToR anyway.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

This is why you don't leave Origin on other than to install a game. But that still doesn't make up for that bullshit. I like how Origin doesn't have an option to disable it at start up in options either.

Druid: Meowth
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Glorious Death Metal Music

WoW has gone to complete trash and I hate it, but even I in all of my unlimited rage and anger wouldn't go this far. The only MMO coming out that matters at all is GW2. Everything else is just WoW with a different coat of paint that people eat up for some god awful reason while saying they want something different.

I won't even touch how bad ToR is, though. I thought playing WAR was bad.

also the only game i'm worried about origin killing is battlefield 3. nothing else released on it will be worth a shit.

True story, but unless someone is giving me $60 I can't be bothered getting it.

Druid: Meowth
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Glorious Death Metal Music

/run msconfig

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I know, but there are a lot of people who don't know how to change that manually and might think "I'd rather not mess something up" changing options.

Druid: Meowth
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Glorious Death Metal Music

I don't see the big deal.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

-Massive spam
-Monitoring literally EVERYTHING on a system is a huge resource hog
-Chance of getting jumped with extortion from the RIAA (even if you're totally innocent but somehow get lumped with everyone else on the list)
-Having an otherwise impartial interaction weighted in some way because you happen to be on a list is never a good thing (and if this were not so, they wouldn't bother collecting and selling the info in the first place)
-Risk of identity theft

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

It looks to me like they're logging my IP address, possibly to prevent piracy? They're gathering information on my computer like how I'm using that super sweet gaming mouse and keyboard to possibly add options for the game to support them better. The application data I'm not so sure about but I doubt they're gonna report me to the internets for having the Android SDK/various root tools installed. Then they're sharing data about these things that does not personally identify me to people, which is pretty much what happens everywhere.

I still don't see the big deal.

Spam from third parties? Set up filters and rules to block it. Monitoring 'literally everything'? There hasn't been any indication that they're going to do that, has there? I haven't read all Origin EULA (only the EULA screen cap), but it doesn't say anything serious. It says Origin is going to gather some information about your computer and it's going to be done in a way that the EA Privacy Policy permits. I think a lot of the fear-mongering is due to the "we're going to watch your software activity", which isn't anything serious. Valve does that with the, "You've played this game for this many hours" or the "Launch client from Steam" whenever you try to play a Steam game without being logged in. It's all fairly standard legal mumbo-jumbo put in place to protect their asses when they send information back to their servers about your computer configuration, which OS most users are using, which IP you're logging in from or which MAC Addy you're NIC has. Again, are we that paranoid that they're going to look at our music library and say, "You know, these guys have a lot of MP3s... I think we should turn them over to the RIAA!" Probably not... it's just going to be the same shit every other program (or website) uses for analytics. I should also mention reading some logs (or things like your HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet), creating snapshots of your system processes or reading a couple cookies isn't that resource intensive.

And why we're concerned about identity theft I don't know. Most of the information said it was non-identifying, like computer information and whatever else. What people don't think about is all the identifying information that does exist in the world. Like, if you've done any of the following you're just as easily susceptible to identity theft:
* had a bank account
* used a credit/debit card
* had a license (of any type)
* owned a car/house
* attended any school
* been picked up by the cops
* had mail delivered to your house (or anywhere else)
* been to a doctor
* created an account online for a website or video game
* made an online purchase
* used public transit systems since 2002

All it takes is one guy that can jump into a Database, where all of these actions would've stored some information in some way.

Your IP and PC serial don't "personally identify you" but there's nothing to prevent anyone who buys that info to use it to personally identify you. And to what end?



is waaaaay more than your IP. That's, like, everything going on your PC.

Bottom line is, no most software doesn't do this - Blizzard runs Warden but they don't sell that info. Windows has the same sort of monitoring but presents an option to turn it off. Firefox or pretty much any other piece of software would have a pretext to do the same - seeing as how EA's argument isn't, "we need this to make the software work" but "we're selling this for cash".

So why should EA have more of a right to farm info to sell than Mozilla which gives their software away?



Except...what's expressly stated in the EULA.



Bolded relevant portion for you.

Checking the registry to see what you have installed =/= watching what you have open in Word, Firefox or iTunes



It's happened before. Google, "RIAA sued student".


It's illegal to cache financial information without explicit permission, and even more illegal to transmit it. It doesn't happen unless you're using your credit card on warez or Russian porn sites or something.

School, arrest, mail, medical and transit history is strictly confidential and proprietary and transmitting that information is a federal offense. Generally speaking, it doesn't happen except in targeted cases (someone's out to get you).

Ironically, even though you're dismissing a legitimate threat, you're entertaining concerns that are wholly paranoid and irrational. That is a paradox typical of paranoia: it becomes impossible to identify legitimate threats because one is inundated by fears that aren't rational.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Look, I'm not the one thinking they're going to be reading mah Microsoft Words and Firefoxs. I'm pretty sure the 'relevant to you' part of 'Software Activities' is more pertinant to the SOFTWARE WHICH IS PURCHASED AND USED THROUGH ORIGIN and not random bits of software on your machine. To suggest I'm paranoid, but then say EA is doing this to sell our information (non-identifying) to third parties (RIAA) is pretty funny.


Financial transactions (credit card information, name on card, expiration date, etc.) are transmitted all the time. It's often encrypted, but for loggings sake, companies will keep this information in a database. Whenever I go to the Home Depot to make a return (without a receipt), they will put the money back on my credit card because they know which items I purchased using that credit card - they swipe it, match the returned item to my purchase history, and refund the amount. Financial information is almost always stored.


Wrong. Just because information is confidential or proprietary doesn't mean it's not targeted by IDENTITY THIEVES. Do you really think thieves care about the consequence of stealing their information? Don't you remember a couple months back about the data breach that Sony had? Confidential information get's out (regardless of the looming federal offense), it get's circulated and is then used by thieves.

The reason I listed that list is because each of those action require your information to be transmitted (in some medium) and stored somewhere.

Ok.

Where do you think the RIAA gets its information?
Why would they demand the right to do something (sell eclectic information to third parties) you say they don't intend to do?



All Home Depot saves is the transaction number. The refund is performed by the credit card company. That transaction number is meaningless to anyone except the credit card company and you, since no one else has both pieces of information.



Identity thieves go about getting someone's transit/arrest/academic/mail/medical history by hacking, bribing, or digging through trash.

That information can't be obtained easily, by legitimate channels - the info isn't "out there". The basis for your argument that EA's selling of info is benign because the info is redundant is therefore invalid.

Legitimizing bad corporate behavior because criminals are worse is like arguing that high taxes are okay because there are muggers and arsonists.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I'd guess ISPs, college networks trying to cover their asses or logs from torrent (public and private trackers) and warez sites. The RIAA doesn't get a lot of action these days, so it's not like companies are just throwing them boat loads of information.

Some of the information being sold to third parties could be for advertising purposes. Let's say you just downloaded an FPS. Maybe another development company making an FPS would like to have that information on hand for targeted marketing? Maybe they're selling configuration data so other developers know some analytics on how powerful the current gaming market machines are.


While it's true HD might be using some payment gateway in the back-end of their application, the credit card information is still being transmitted over the networks. It's also stored in the credit card companies databases. My point is the information is stored somewhere. Also, last time I read checked out the PCI standards, developers were capable of storing credit card information in their systems... there just has to be a lot of safeguards in place to protect that information. HD certainly has the resources to implement those safeguards.


No one said it was easy to get but that doesn't mean it's not accessible and possible. Remember, aren't you the one that said Origin will lead to identity theft and that it's a big deal? The identity thieves (which you cite as being a problem with Origin) don't need Origin to steal your information and since they're doing criminal acts, I doubt they're concerned about the legality of hacking, bribing or digging through trash (or taking your mail from your mailbox, stealing your wallet, recording you as you take a credit card out of your wallet, picking up a call with your credit card company on a scanner, etc.) If you're going to say my argument is invalid then I'll need you to make the case that EA is going to sell your information to people who are only out to steal your identity.