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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:14 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm
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Reactive attachment disorder is some cereally fucked up shit.

I suggest you guys do some reading on it if you're unaware of what the ramifications are.


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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Does it involve ducklings and inanimate objects?

Dvergar, just because an observation vacillates your ideology doesn't make it "dum". The latter is a good argument but the problem is that FCFS is inherently susceptible to influence and bias when you're not literally standing at a queue. And there aren't enough people who want "challenges". Besides, in a FCFS system there can't be "preferences" because matching is determined by queue position: your two claims are contradictory. How do you even know about this, anyway?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:23 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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so whats your solution aestu? work camps?


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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:41 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Do you think that's less humane than leaving these kids on the shelf in layaway until they get dumped on skid row?

Which would you prefer, if it were your life? Or your son?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:14 pm  
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French Faggot
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm
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Unfortunately children aren't a good under the UCC (which would make answering this easier, at any rate), because if they were, deceptive trade practices and the terms of the adoption contract would come into play. I don't know shit about actual family law (haven't taken the class/not all that interested in doing so), so that's the extent of what I'm willing to post.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:29 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Ah, but is the conveyance of children not a service?

As it is a service, deceptive trade practices still apply.

/check


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:34 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 2:05 pm
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Azelma wrote:
Should you be able to return an adopted kid

Quote:
The Tulsa World reports that parents Melissa and Tony Wescott want to return their 11 year-old adopted son to state custody because they say he had severe behavioral problems not disclosed prior to his 2007 adoption, including reactive detachment disorder, disruptive behavior disorder, major depressive disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, and fetal alcohol syndrome.

The Wescotts say that soon after the adoption, the boy attacked a neighbor child with a board, killed and injured animals, began regularly running away, and hid butcher knives and lighters in his room. “He tried to burn our home down,” said Melissa Wescott. “The note read: ‘I’m sorry you had to die.’”


This thread should also be paired with should we give the death penalty to kids


Learn the difference!

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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:58 am  
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Feckless Fool
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:46 am
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Only if the seal is broken.


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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:07 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
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Yes.

Are you thinking a 9 year old who stabbed his parents to death will be anything resembling a model citizen?


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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:36 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Usdk wrote:
Are you thinking a 9 year old who stabbed his parents to death will be anything resembling a model citizen?

For two months, I shared a jail cell with a young man, about my age, who had stabbed his adoptive mother to death when he was 16.

He was one of the most good-hearted people I had ever met - very thoughtful, very compassionate, full of hope and life, surprisingly enough.

He had a very difficult life. He had symptoms of fetal drug/alcohol exposure, including slightly "melted" features and occasional lapses into characteristically infantile FAS behaviors such as body motions and repeating individual words or phrases as if they were the funniest thing he'd ever heard. His adoptive mother was a strange person - she was capable of having children, but chose to adopt instead; she was cold, glacial, distant, given to unpredictable and vindictive behavior. She had adopted him and his (much, much more damaged) brother when they were six and eight, but she was very obviously not cut out to be a parent, she basically couldn't handle bonding.

He remained in contact, even now, with his biological father, who was a lowlife pothead but not a bad person. His mother had disappeared - she was a woman of ill repute - but the state refused to give him custody, instead parcelling him out to this woman. He had been prevented from providing more than marginal moral support to the kid, but now continued to keep in touch and do what he could. He had a picture of him on the wall of his cell.

The adoptive home was in a difficult area, and the kid fell in with the wrong crowd. He got hooked on drugs by this dealer who was a sociopath. While he was high, the dealer mocked him and told him to go kill his mother. In a drugged stupor he did just that, then couldn't explain why.

At the time, I was very upset about having been arrested. Disparagingly, he said that a few misdemeanors were nothing and it was ridiculous I was brooding over my life difficulties when he was facing many decades in the penitentiary, and yet he still had hope. He was most worried that the pen would "change" him, because it changes everyone, it's incredibly brutal and destructive.

This person had tremendous strength of character and energy. Tremendous wasted potential. What would this person's life have been like if the adoptive and mental health systems hadn't totally fucked it up? Was he ever offered a choice of the life he had been compelled to live as a child? Who's to say that anyone in those shoes would have done any better?

After I got on with my life, he wrote me a letter. I misplaced it and wasn't able to get his address again because the social workers, who had known well we had a supportive relationship, insisted on their non-disclosure policy and refused to even ask him to mail me another. There was no risk, nothing to be lost - they just did not care enough to make even the slightest deviation from the most conservative professional responsibilities. I still remember how desperate he was that he remain in contact with me going into the pen - he was so frightened and in such need of real human support that the pompous and superficial social workers, caring only for their paychecks, prerogatives and drama, didn't care enough to provide, going around talking to everyone in their affected, saccharine tone.

There was one social worker who wasn't that way. I formed a good relationship with her. She, and my parents, wanted her to keep in touch but I wanted to distance my personal relationships from a clinical context. Immediately after my case was concluded, she left the field of social work, frustrated at the intransigence of her peers.

Some people say "don't judge". Everyone judges, that is life. That is the world we live in. The imperative is not to not judge, it is to judge rightly. And too many people, under the pretense of "not judging", fail to do that. People like Dvergar to whom pompous idolatry of bureaucratic lip-service to PC ideas is more important than really helping people or asking difficult questions about social institutions and their role in perpetuating human misery and injustice.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:04 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
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SO................what did you do?


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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:19 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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I can break my own rules from time to time, just like everyone else.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:33 pm  
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Obama Zombie
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 pm
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Location: NoVA
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Aestu wrote:
I reached into his nose with my index and middle fingers and ripped his tonsils out through his septum.

I don't get this. I didn't think anything in the frontal nasal cavity was connected to the adenoids (which is the tonsil I'm guessing you're talking about), so how you managed to get to the back of the nasal cavity and rip the adenoids out with two fingers (the middle and forefinger) is beyond me. If you're talking about the tonsils visible in the mouth then I'm going to call BS since I'm fairly certain there is no tissue connection between the nose and those tonsils. Also, when you say you went 'through the septum', so you mean you physically broke his dividing wall or are you mistaking the 'septum' for the 'nostrils'?
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:48 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
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***


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Should You Be Able to Return an Adopted Baby?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:00 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
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Image

IS UNIMPRESSED.


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