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Not the point. When Bush came into office, he insisted he had a "mandate" and intended to "spend political capital". That perception of legitimacy is itself a powerful political force.

Also see: 1984

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Had you have read what I linked you'll have read that all the major news outlets (including Fox News) declared Al Gore the winner before all the votes in all the precincts were in. Strangely enough, Mayo isn't concerned that all the major news networks got the call wrong the first time... rather, he's more focused on Fox getting the call right about 6-7 hours after everyone (including Fox) initially got it wrong. Realistically, Bush was the winner of the 2000 election (the initial vote and several recounts afterwards proved this) and, as such, he was the President. Someone calling someone else the night of the election doesn't magically add extra votes after the polls are closed and that's why I question the relevance. Why? Because it's Fox News and Mayo is a little bitch about them because they don't share the same world view.

You're linking the information that corroborates your claim, but the information that contradicts it is still there.

The AP is a consortium, not an umbrella organization. AP member outlets are free to do their own thing, which is what Fox did, for its own reasons.

You say they got it right...because that's what everyone went along with, like it or not? Why? Media influence. Circular reasoning at its finest.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't know what contradiction you're trying to make. I'm just calling Mayo out for being a little pussy and going on and on over the evil Fox News when there really isn't any reason to. If you want to argue some other tangential point then go right ahead... just don't become more of a pest when I stop entertaining your "I'm arguing for the sake of arguing" shit.


Fox News got it right because that's what the polls showed. After the first count Bush was in the lead. After subsequent recounts Bush still held his lead, although the margin lowered significantly. That's how presidential elections work, Aestu - states count up all the votes and the winner gets a number of state delegates, and the candidate with the highest number of delegates is the winner.

Hell, if I said that night, "I declare Bush to be the winner" I wouldn't have been wrong because that's the reality we live in - Bush won. The only thing shitting on Fox News during that election coverage is their declaration that Gore won... obviously, he didn't.

And then the Supreme Court picked the president. Funny how that worked out.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

I always wondered why that went to the supreme court.

I lived in FL during that fiasco.

My brother was living with me so he could go to college. The news networks were calling the state an hour before the polls closed in the western part of the state (the panhandle) which is heavily republican. If the news networks hadn't made that call and started the ticker-tape for Gore before all the polls closed, there's a very real possibility a lot of the people that turned out in the last hour to vote (and there were a lot) would have stayed at home, and Gore might have gotten the victory that was claimed for him early.

I only remember this because when they called it for Gore, my brother predicted this, then he was very smug about it for the next several months.

What kills me about complaints about Jeb being governor (or having relatives on Fox News--especially after seeing Fox did the same thing everyone else did) is that the counties under the most scrutiny favored democrats, and the one ballot that Gore's team complained about (the one that had people casting a vote for Pat Buchanan, if I recall correctly) was designed and printed by an elections official who was himself a democrat.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

My maternal grandmother, great-grandmother and maternal aunt once removed lived in Florida during the election. They disagree, as do many Floridans, but that doesn't prove anything any more than your living there does.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't remember the Supreme Court 'picking' the President. Didn't they just rule that all the recounts were unconstitutional for some disparity in the recount methodology? In that case (where the recounts were going to Bush anyways), Bush was going to be the winner. Where Gore could've possibly won is when you look at the overvotes of the butterfly ballot (that Jubber talked about), but I'm pretty sure the rules said you can only cast one vote... and Bush also had his share of overvotes, too.

Modus operandi. And how could a recount be unconstitutional?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't think it was the recount that was unconstitutional, but the manner in which it was performed.

+1 for USD having reading comprehension; +1 for Jubber always saying Aestu has none.

So it was unconstitutional because it was unconstitutional? That is what you're saying, whether you realize it or not.

Hmm, let's see. Show me on the doll - I mean, uh, the Constitution - where it was violated.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

you are so missing the point its not even....well actually it still is pretty funny.

Maybe if you weren't so afraid of using Google you'd know why the justices said it was unconstitutional. (Just read any summary about Bush v. Gore - You don't have to agree with the judgement to understand why the justices ruled the way they did.)