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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:04 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Aestu wrote:
I agree with Tuhl. Especially about paternity leave.


Speaking as a father who took like 3 paid days off and then reported back to work to avoid termination, I cannot agree more.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:51 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Zaryi wrote:
It'd be a great idea to allow women to sign up for selective service, let's just fix those pay discrepancies and the 'mommy tax' while we're equal. Both sexes face discrimination in someways today, and it's tiring to hear you guys constantly complain about how women are 'pussifying' America or some such bullshit. The patriarchal society is slowly dying out - something western civilization has never experienced, but changing norms are generally ever a bad thing, especially when social rights/equality are concerned.

It's a shame feminism as a denomyn has become so widely associated with the absurd minority (inb4 'ironic from zaryi). We're not all manhating, unshaven hippies, lol. Not even close. The vast majority of feminist merely believe that gender-identity/biological sex should have absolutely no baring on the rights afforded to us by employers or the state (or even other people). It's a pretty humanist philosophy.

Secular humanism ftw.

The Jedi code is also a good substitute.


I'm glad you feel that way, but it's you in the minority as far as your gender is concerned.

A lot of you like to use the term "social contract." Marriage at one time was an actual social contract. Both parties, husband and wife, were legally accountable to the terms of the marriage contract. When one party violated the contract it became void and the other party could sue for relief. If the two parties agreed to a dissolution and the terms of that dissolution were voluntary, that was an equally acceptable conclusion to the contract.

What shouldn't happen, but does in our 'no-fault' divorce system, is for one party to break the contract for no reason and be rewarded for it by the other party. “Marriage,” as practiced today, fails miserably because of our system of unilateral or 'no fault' divorce. One party (usually the woman since something like 95% of all divorces are initiated by the wife) can divorce their spouse for any or no reason and be rewarded for it with the kids, the house, child support and perhaps even alimony. That spouse can even break the marriage covenant through adulterous conduct and still be rewarded under a 'no fault' system.

The point of the article linked wasn't that women are terrible, evil creatures. It was that men are giving up. Men once acquired wealth and social standing to attract the most desirable mate. At present, there is no reason for a man to acquire wealth other than his desire to acquire wealth. Women, who once traded their partnership during the years they were most attractive were guaranteed that they'd be cared for as their looks faded. Now, women enter into marriage, then quit the partnership yet still expect to be accommodated with the perks of the institution they willing departed: alimony.

The social contract of marriage was an actual quid pro quo, not one of the nebulous "you guys owe us" some of you are thinking of when you (mis-)use the term. The system is now broken, generally because of changes women advocated to "equalize" things. Now you have guys wasting their lives, and women looking at them and asking "where did all the good men go?" I know they're asking that because a) the article stated that as part of its premise and b) my young female friends complain that they want a guy who wants to do more than fuck then go play video games/paintball/whatever. The system women advocated for didn't just fuck men over, it fucked women over, too. No man is going to marry a woman (and whether you would care to admit it or not, that's what a lot of women want) when the possibility that she's not only going to break his heart when she gets bored with him, but also is going to take a huge chunk of everything he's worked for regardless of whether or not she's the initiator of the break-up and/or capable of making her own way unless he's a fucking retard.

It wasn't an arbitrary system that someone just laid down one afternoon for the benefit of the boys. It developed in very similar forms in disparate cultures separated by geography and language. That happened because it worked, not just for the couple involved but for society as a whole. Then, because "changing norms are generally never a bad thing," some asshat got the idea in their head that they were more clever than thousands of years of social/cultural evolution, and now this is where we are. No one is really happy about the current state of affairs, including a lot of women.

The "everyone should be equal" line is just lip service. You never find a feminist on a sinking ship or in a burning building. It's obvious that women as a group want all the perks of "equality" with none of the detriments. If that weren't the case, there'd be a backlash over the inequities our system has created for men to accompany, among other things, the constant wailing about the fallacious "3/4 of the pay" argument. There isn't, and part of that is a petty vindictiveness inherent in feminine thinking. Even if equality were the actual goal (which it isn't) equality wouldn't be enough, because the offending party (men) hadn't been punished.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:38 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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If feminists wanted actual, unbiased equality, they'd have named themselves equalists or some shit. Like white supremacists, everyone know what feminists are about just by the name. If they wanted equality, there would be no checkbox on a job application for male/female. Divorce courts would be COMPLETELY different. And discussing issues like rape would probably be more reasonable and less emotional screamfest.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:12 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Usdk wrote:
If feminists wanted actual, unbiased equality, they'd have named themselves equalists or some shit. Like white supremacists, everyone know what feminists are about just by the name. If they wanted equality, there would be no checkbox on a job application for male/female. Divorce courts would be COMPLETELY different. And discussing issues like rape would probably be more reasonable and less emotional screamfest.


We should start a masculinist movement on facebook with the sole purpose of pointing out the double standard and with a secondary bonus of trolololololling feminists.


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:15 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Im in


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:53 pm  
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Usdk wrote:
If feminists wanted actual, unbiased equality, they'd have named themselves equalists or some shit. Like white supremacists, everyone know what feminists are about just by the name. If they wanted equality, there would be no checkbox on a job application for male/female. Divorce courts would be COMPLETELY different. And discussing issues like rape would probably be more reasonable and less emotional screamfest.


The two groups you mentioned were named by society or opponents, not by themselves. They may have accepted the title later or accept that they're in that category, but the early movements of both groups didn't go by those names.

The checkbox would still be there, divorce courts wouldn't be very far from where they are now (I know you don't understand why things are the way they are), and rape would still be a touchy issue because it is a touchy issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:26 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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So you think that if women really were out for pure equality, divorce courts would still be as skewed in the favor of females as it is now?


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:04 pm  
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Quote:
My solution here is (predictably) French, in that fathers should get paternity leave. You can't take away a woman's days in labor/nursing, so level the playing field by giving men days off as well instead of allowing a company's hiring staff to make judgment calls.


I missed this earlier, but men have gotten paternity leave for quite a while now. It's in FMLA and it's the exact same rules for men that it is for women.

But hey it's easier for these guys to ignorantly play the victim, they're so used to it as conservatives.

Usdk wrote:
So you think that if women really were out for pure equality, divorce courts would still be as skewed in the favor of females as it is now?


They aren't as skewed as everyone wants to claim they are. The cases people cry about almost always involve a woman staying at home or in some way handicapping her earnings for the sake of the family/marriage. In cases where the opposite is true there are men who can get alimony. The difference is if a man works a job while the woman stays home he feels like everything is his in the divorce.

If you want to talk about cases where guys do get legitimately screwed, you need to be clear that you're talking about custody. Women tend to have an easier time getting kids, but men have made a lot of progress on that issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:11 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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In theory, blacks could vote under Jim Crow, if they passed the exam. In practice, as with male alimony, it never happened.

Divorce rate is 50%+. Women prevail in 85%+ of cases. By that logic the kind of issues you describe affect at least 40% of women.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:52 pm  
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http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/10/01/california-prison-program-granting-mothers-early-release-fathers-need-not-apply/

wat


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 Post subject: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:03 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Usdk wrote:

wat


wat

inb4inevitable partisan bullshit about a more or less nonpartisan issue.

Read: We all favor equality and nothing more, nothing less. Unless you think women should have more rights and less responsibilities than men.


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:36 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Divorce rate is 50%+. Women prevail in 85%+ of cases. By that logic the kind of issues you describe affect at least 40% of women.


When you get out of the make-shit-up machine let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:47 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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actually those numbers are pretty close to the ones ive seen.

divorce rate has been steadily rising for the last few years, last i looked it was at like 45-55%


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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:59 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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I don't think it's a "made-up" statistic, I just don't think the stats have ever been accurately tabulated. Based on what I looked at in Census information and CDC links, the 50% figure seems to come from the fact that there are, on average, about half as many divorces per 1000 people per state as there are marriages. I don't think that means there is an actual 50% divorce rate, it just appears that way to people that don't understand how statistics are supposed to work. It is an understandable error, though, given the information at hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Dumb article is dumb.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:27 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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If I'm correct, divorce rates are calculated on a per person basis rather than per couple basis.

IE: Someone can get married 5 times and divorced 4 times. That individuals divorce rate is 80%. Someone might never be married, and they have a 0% divorce rate (assuming unmarried people are counted, if not apply the same concept and substitute lifelong marriage couples)

It's not like 50% of ALLLLLLL marriages will end in divorce. That's inaccurate.


Brawlsack

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