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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:02 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma wrote:
Aestu, you asked for some books that helped formed my views. I gave you an example. Clearly I didn't get everything I think from that one book...magazines, newspapers, people i know, experiences i've had all contribute to my worldview. You really just want to argue with my views, and that's fine. I knew you'd use whatever books I cited and then proceed to tear everything I wrote apart bit by bit (you have a valid point about me misinterpreting that Adam Smith passage...bet you didn't think I could admit that did you?). Still...the fault is mine for playing your game.
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Anyway, let's not talk about this anymore because really I've established all I wanted to establish, which was the entire reason for our banter these past few days:

You claimed that it was pure luck that I am where I am today and you claim that I'm not particularly intelligent, talented, or hard-working. You can have your opinion of my intelligence/critical thinking skills (or lack thereof), but I found the disrespect of my work ethic to be most upsetting...as well as the insinuation that everything I've gotten has simply been handed to me. This is what set me off. After all this time - the facts are these:

-Your family was and is more well off than my family. You grew up in a beautiful suburb of Sacramento, son of professionals, selling lemonade to yuppies.
-I grew up in a shit hole apartment in Philly across from two bars being supported by a single mother with no college degree who worked for minimum wage at such illustrious corporations as: McDonalds, JC Penny, and Friendly's.

-I escaped that life and moved to live with my father (my own choice) and ended up attending a private high school (after 9 years of public schooling)
-I worked fast food all through high school and even contributed to my own tuition. How much is irrelevant, the fact is I did it. A 16 year old handing over half of his paycheck to his parents to help pay for school is not something that happens in every family, and I'm proud that I had little spending money in high school, but had a great education. I held the job and was even offered a managerial position upon my high school graduation.

-Your parents, from what I understand, were a thorn in your side and made growing up difficult for you. You apparently had no option to get away. Some of their great sins include not paying for AP tests.
-Despite their many mistakes, they still fed and clothed you and supported you financially...continuing to do so to this day

-I ended up at a public university that was not elite in any sense of the word (well, maybe our football program...). I ignored studying what I was truly interested in (music) to focus on what I knew was a practical degree that would allow me to obtain gainful employment upon graduation (business).
-You went to a significantly more expensive college that was paid for in full by your parents. You decided to get a humanities (some sort of history, correct?) degree.

-You've had more financial advantages than I (proven by the fact that I was forced to obtain credit card debt as well as student loan debt in college). While I have worked tirelessly to pay down this debt and have my net-worth approach zero, I still have a long way to go.
-I obtained an internship in college because of my talent and skills (or at the very least my ability to nail an interview) and was compensated accordingly. My parents did not support me while I was at this internship, and one of the stipulations of getting an internship was that it needed to be paid. I couldn't afford for it not to be.

-Currently, I'm employed and not supported by anyone but myself. I had multiple job offers out of college and was able to choose which company I felt would best suit me and would allow me to have the greatest earning potential.
-You are supported by your parents and have few career prospects.

Given all these facts, I still don't think I'm better than you, Aestu. So please don't take it as such (though I'm sure you think you're better than everyone else, especially me).

I think we're all equal. I think you dismissing any success I've had as pure luck, social advantage, or a direct result of my parents is foolish. It stands to reason that perhaps you are making excuses for yourself by discrediting any successes I've had. It's a shame too, because with your intellect you could do so much more than sit behind your computer blaming others and making excuses.

I've had advantages, sure...but I was the one who interviewed well. I was the one who made my professional choices. I was the one who took the financial risks to get my degree. I'm still the one who wakes up every morning, walks to work, puts in time, and has managed to keep my job and actually get promoted.

Say what you will, but we've all had shit to deal with. I've been able to overcome and I don't blame anyone for any hardships I've endured. I know I will always come out okay because I've already dealt with so much. Call it arrogance if you must, but I think it's confidence.

Instead of looking over at the man with the green grass and insulting him by implying that his nice lawn is the result of pure luck.....why not think about what you could do to make your own lawn nicer?


A long rant that boils down to "If you disagree with me, you're wrong". I bolded the really relevant part.

Addressing some of what you said directly, we were both kids at the time, and we weren't offered the same choices nor did we face the same obstacles. You talk about your poverty. Spare me the hyperbole. If you can attend a private school you're not poor no matter how you want to cut it.

I had serious problems of my own, and your premise that it's even possible to understand the world enough to make wise choices at the age of 16 is idiotic. That you even believe that is proof enough of how superficial your own understanding is in the here and now.

You're proving the point I set out to make at the beginning of this thread...which is what 2081 is really about...is small and stupid people like you who are instinctively fearful and spiteful towards anyone better than you, and you seek to bring them down to your level by giving this "We're all equal" bullshit while hypocritically espousing your own superiority based entirely upon the premise that the world is fair and balanced (hint: it's not).

Your world view is hinged on glaring contradictions ("we're all equal, but I'm better than you"), absolutely stupid nonsense ("the world is fair and balanced, and anyone who doesn't win must be bad"), and total bullshit ("My world view was shaped by many books but I can only cite this one which I may or may not have read based off quotes from Wikipedia that directly contradict my faulty understanding of the original work.")

You can't answer a single one of the points I raised. You can't even cite a single work that influenced you except a single book that it appears you never even read.

All you can say is, "Wow, you disagreed with me in a logical, informed way, with reference to ideas I never considered and facts I wasn't previously aware of. You must be a douchebag."

You might have responded logically, but you didn't because you can't.
THAT inability to think is, to me, proof that you're a moron.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:06 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Watch yo adenoids, niggas - Aestu is getting mad!
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:09 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Watch yo adenoids, niggas - Aestu is getting mad!


- --T- -T-P-- P--P--


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:49 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I'm aestu, and I hate people who are more successful than I am. And people who are less successful, or even the same amount of successful.


Basically, I act like I hate everyone. In reality, however, I hate myself so much that I have to make everyone else feel worse about their lives than I do about my own, so I spew hateful shit all over everything I see.


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 Post subject: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:57 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm
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ITT: Azelma - "I grew up in a shithole in Philly, you grew up in sunny Sacramento"

Aestu - "Your claims that the world is all fair and equal prove you're a moron blah blah I've read so many books, by so many accomplished and generally well regarded authors but the books still suck cause I said so and I also have no reading comprehension despite the mountain of books I've read. Azelma is an idiot because saving money to attend college at age 16 is definitely proof that he doesnt understand the world enough to make smart decisions."


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
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 Post subject: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:59 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Usdk wrote:
I'm aestu, and I hate people who are more successful than I am. And people who are less successful, or even the same amount of successful.


Basically, I act like I hate everyone. In reality, however, I hate myself so much that I have to make everyone else feel worse about their lives than I do about my own, so I spew hateful shit all over everything I see.



All of this + "I have more mounts than you but you have a better education and better paying job. Clearly I am superior. You will be the first to go when I assume command and assemble my death squads."


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:39 pm  
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French Faggot
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Battletard wrote:
All of this + "I have more mounts than you but you have a better education and better paying job. Clearly I am superior. You will be the first to go when I assume command and assemble my death squads."


UMass Boston is better than OSU, not that it matters much.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
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 Post subject: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:57 pm  
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Battletard wrote:
All of this + "I have more mounts than you but you have a better education and better paying job. Clearly I am superior. You will be the first to go when I assume command and assemble my death squads."


UMass Boston is better than OSU, not that it matters much.


I don't measure education by what school paid the most money for a decent Kaplan review.


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:38 am  
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French Faggot
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I don't know what your criteria are. These things are quantifiable, however. For example, Princeton is a better school than, say, Muhlenberg. Point remains that UMassB > OSU.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
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 Post subject: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:09 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Yuratuhl wrote:
I don't know what your criteria are. These things are quantifiable, however. For example, Princeton is a better school than, say, Muhlenberg. Point remains that UMassB > OSU.


I don't care if he has a PhD. In 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' from every academic institution in the country. He won't be successful at anything except alienating Internet peoplez until he applies the knowledge he's gained.


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:06 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I don't know or care about OhS but UMB is crap, whatever the Kaplan system or US News or whatever measures it as. It would make no difference to me one way or the other if I went to CSUS or Princeton or anything in between. That much, at least, I agree with React.

I know that I am, in my own way, a good and moral person. That said, not being a douchebag or misanthrope has never been a necessary characteristic for success, and many successful people, from Steve Jobs to Adolf Hitler, were unemployed for long periods and met with success only belatedly.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:38 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Someone wanna TL;DR this whole NERDS GETTIN' MAD thread for me, because I was out with girls and am therefore too lazy and stupefied to read.

Your Pal,
Jubber


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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:52 pm  
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Yuratuhl wrote:
I don't know what your criteria are. These things are quantifiable, however. For example, Princeton is a better school than, say, Muhlenberg. Point remains that UMassB > OSU.


A relevant work-translatable education from Muhlenberg is a better education than learning to make paper footballs at Princeton.


Dvergar /
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:01 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am
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..


Azelma

Image


Last edited by Azelma on Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2081 (Aestu Thread)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:19 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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Azelma wrote:
For the record I think I've stated multiple times that UMassB > OSU. Really my point was that it's more expensive and Aestu's parents paid for it in full whereas I was forced to take out loans for a less expensive less 'good' university. Yet I ended up with a better job (though I guess any job would be better than no job?)


And what if it didn't pay off? That's a question you've yet to answer.

And no, "well it did" isn't valid. There's no such thing as a sure deal. There are millions out of work or up to their eyeballs in debt because of what they had at least as good cause to believe as you was a "sure deal". The best laid plans go awry.

Azelma wrote:
Jubber - Aestu is mad because I called bullshit on him saying I'm so privileged/lucky/whatever when he actually grew up more privileged than I yet hasn't been able to capitalize on it.


Privilege is as privilege does.

For one thing, my parents didn't take out loans. We lived a pretty frugal existence, and we were snubbed for it (often to my detriment). Our cars were a 1984 Toyota Corolla (which my brother still drives) and a 1988 Volvo (totalled in 2005, replaced with a late-90s Volvo V70). My parents owned the house (with a mortgage) because they happened to move to Sacramento when land was cheap in the 1980s. Look up Prop 13. When the value of the house shot through the roof they got swamped (because they were levied 20 times the land tax of people with ten times their income).

Arguing that UMB > OhS based on price tag is asinine. To drive the point home, if they didn't have the cash for it, I'd have used the program to take two years of community college before xferring to a UC with a discount. As to choice of major, that was a decision made for me when I was a kid, and it couldn't be changed.

My parents made serious mistakes that I still pay for, compounded by enormous misfortune and adversity. I've had three jobs and two other activities that I performed well with but can't capitalize on for reasons I have no control over.

The bottom line is, your parents put you in a stronger position than mine did.
What do you see my parents bought for me that you didn't have?

Azelma wrote:
Aestu also got me to argue in circles for a few pages, so kudos to him on that.


I didn't argue in circles. My reasoning was linear; you doubled back and said "OH YEAH SO WHAT IF I DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT THE BOOK I CLAIM TO HAVE READ AND MY VIEWS DON'T MAKE SENSE CUZ IM A POOR PHILLY BOY".


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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