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why is there a different penalty?

I mean really. If i TRY to kill someone, and fuck it up, how am I NOT going to jail for as long as i would have if I hadn't missed?

Victim is still alive.

Skribble: 85 Paladin.

There's also a difference between assault and battery, despite both having the intent of causing physical (well, usually physical) harm.

The short of it is you were lucky enough to fuck up and your intended victim was harmed less as a result.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

When you put it that way, it seems fucked up. I think it'd be even more fucked up if the penalties were the same. I guess I view our legal system as being responsible for enforcing punishment that is commensurate with the victimization that has occurred. Generally speaking it would seem that if someone is still alive, the amount of victimization that has occurred is less than what would have occurred if they were dead.

…definitely a thought provoking question.

They don't give the Nobel Prize for "attempted chemistry", do they?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Same reason I think hate crime laws are bullshit.

If I kill a black man, shouldn't it be the same as killing a white man regardless of whether it was racially motivated?

If killing a black man in a racially motivated crime invokes harsher terminology or a more severe sentence, does this not also imply that killing someone in a non racially motivated crime is more acceptable or less severe?


P.S: only used race because it's more or less the most obvious basis of comparison.

P.P.S: it works both ways also. minorities killing each other is not more or less severe than killing a white person.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

I think so. At risk of being insensitive, I see those sorts of laws as knee-jerk political reactions.

Hate crime laws are there to protect at-risk minority groups. Ideally there'd be no need for them; as all of you are fond of pointing out, the world isn't ideal. Intent matters for many crimes, most of them having nothing to do with "hate" specifically. The point of hate law legislation and statutes is to make it worse when your crimes are racially/ethnically/bigotry-motivated, as a way to discourage that type of behavior.

Punching someone in the face because you think they're a dick is normal battery. Punching someone in the face because they're black or gay is a hate crime.

Again, intent is important. If you punch a gay guy in the face because you think he's a douche, you won't be charged with a hate crime. It's the mindset that's being punished.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

The mindset is whatever your reason for cold-cocking someone in the face, unless it's self defense it's all the same shit. Thinking someone is a douche is no more or less valid a reason to punch someone out than it would be for being gay.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

Not really. Being pissed off because someone's throwing insults at you is a lot more forgivable than being pissed off at someone because they happen to be black and in your field of vision.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Being pissed off isn't a crime though. I never said being pissed off isn't forgivable. Assault is assault. Pissed off is pissed off.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

You get a lesser penalty out of pity.

The reasons behind your assault are important, that's what I said above. Crimes based on things people have no control over, such as orientation or race, are less forgivable than crimes based on really anything else.

I know why you don't like it. But American can't work that way, at least not yet. Hate crime laws make sense while hate crimes exist. I'll get back to you when society becomes colorblind. Or whateverblind.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I appreciate your acknowledgment of my argument, Tuhl. Likewise, I know why you favor it.

I don't agree with it, but I understand the theoretical intent.

I feel like its almost a catch 22. Equality can't exist with hate crime and affirmative action laws, but it can't really exist without them.

I feel like people are animals sometimes, and people will do what people do regardless. It can't be stopped or limited.

By giving all groups and demographics equal footing and equal accountability, we at least create an environment where naysayers have little to stand on besides backwards racist / sexist / whateverist thinking, which most of mainstream society can agree is flawed.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming