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Good point. Perhaps we should be on a fiat based currency. The challenge is managing it well though, which I don't think is possible in with these current governments/economies.

Higher prices and inability to keep up with demand.

You can't force the technology, nor does it need to be forced.

So you think that coal and oil prices will never go up? What exactly do you think we will do so far as "demand" goes when the supply is exhausted?

And why can't renewable sources keep up with demand? Because Fox News says so? Is there actually some sort of science here?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

You're asking for the scientific basis of the statements of a libertarian.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

renewable resources can always keep up with demand, at least in the case of solar power.

the problem is the oil companies and their washington puppets keeping legislation, subsidies, etc all either pro oil or anti-solar power.

for the record, when it comes to alternate power sources, I only give a shit about nuclear or solar power. wind can eat a dick.

Why not let the free market decide?



PS: Without things like government subsidies, regulations, and pricing of gas, do you seriously gas prices won't double, if not triple?

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

That's okay, price hikes are just the system working itself out to be as efficient and consumer-beneficial as possible because unrestricted free market capitalism and Ron Paul.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

WWRD

I'm sure it can in some parts of the world(where it's really flat and windy and/or warm and sunny), but I know in the middle of NH where I live this stuff doesn't really work. You could cover your house in solar panels and it wouldn't create enough energy to heat the place or your water in the winter time(yay 0deg atm), I do heating system's with my father and have done a few solar hot water systems and they pretty much have to be supplemented with oil/electric to function up to peoples standards(if you run all the hot water after dark its just gone until the next time the sun shines). There just isn't enough sun in the winter and a few cloudy days can suck hard core the rest of the time.

So from a self sustaining standpoint I don't see how it could work the way it "currently"(haven't done one for like 2 years) is(and they were hella expensive), plus by the time you make it and fly it across the world you are losing out on a lot if not all of the environmental benefit you would be trying to get anyway(I haven't seen those solar powered Jetliners yet >.>).

And as far as wind power goes most people don't want to look at big ass towers off there beach's or on the top of every mountain. We had been very tempted to set up a wind generator or what ever they are called but there are height exemptions in our area(NH is all about the views for the yuppies and there second homes) and the upfront cost/repairs vs the savings just wasn't good sense and unfortunately we don't have extra money to do it just for the environmental aspects, plus it tends to be either not very windy here or so windy that its blowing trees over(IE into towers with blades on them) : [.

All and all I think wind would work out better because you could feasibly have wind farms off the coasts but I somehow doubt you could ever get enough power from either or both combined to meet the demands. I wonder if there are any wind or solar only towns out there set up as experiments would be neat to see. I do remember there was some guy with vibration based renewable energy, like batteries wired under a couple miles of highway somewhere pretty sure they were not generating enough power to pay for there own creation/burial but cool idea non the less.


Shit I type to much when I'm tired...



~Chubathingy

Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch

Telling Weena libertarianism is crazy while asking why "sustainable energy" is a pipe-dream. I guess "crazy" is subjective.

I am amuse.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

The sun isn't going to go out, rivers aren't going to stop flowing, the Earth's mantle isn't going to freeze, the tides aren't going to stop coming, we're not going to run out of uranium or tritium, and like I said most sources of renewable energy are by their very nature infinitely scalable. The fact renewable sources produce less raw power is irrelevant because we can simply deploy more production whenever our needs increase, and greater labor input towards production/deployment/maintenance is also irrelevant since we're not nearly at full employment anyway.

In what respect is renewable energy a pipe dream? What's your basis for claiming that it is, other than Fox News?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

It "goes out" every night, and weather diminishes its 'output' on an irregular basis. This is one of the reasons some power companies won't tie some solar (and wind) facilities into their grid.


Hydroelectric is great, and we already make use of it where it's feasible. However, have fun dealing with the environmental lobby should we find another suitable location. God knows they love damming up rivers and flooding stuff, and would probably block any project on the basis that it'd would destroy some species of parasite that causes genital cancers with its bite.



Like hydroelectric power, both geothermal and tidal power systems have location limitations (in other words, you can't put them just anywhere). On top of that, geothermal has high capital costs, and has been associated with seismic disturbances due to some geothermal systems using fracking techniques. Tidal power isn't currently feasible because of its high capital cost and the limited availability of sites with sufficiently high tidal ranges and/or flow velocities.


Perhaps you've forgotten that I have more than a passing knowledge of nuclear technology? Uranium is actually one of the rarer rare earth metals, which is one of the many reasons we should be using thorium in far safer LFTR systems. Tritium, being an isotope of hydrogen, isn't exactly something that's super-safe to work with in any sort of high temperature environment...not that uranium is any great shakes, because aside from the radiation issues, uranium is chemically toxic...like lead, only much worse.



But again, have fun with the environmental lobby, especially after Japan's recent earthquake/tsunami problems.



So we should just teach hamsters to run on treadmills, and cover the entire southwest with them!

No.

This last paragraph is an indication of why your ideas are, at the current time, a pipe-dream. Efficiency matters, as does the amount of space a facility encompasses, and the resources it consumes (protip: labor is a resource). As hard as it may be to hear, coal, oil, and other fossil fuels are extremely efficient, and we already have an existing infrastructure for them. Anything we find to replace those resources is going to need to fit into that infrastructure. That's not so difficult for power generation, but it becomes problematic for things like automotive fuels.

I also seem to recall someone saying that subsidies are bad. Every time one of these new "green" (and that's in parenthesis because many of the environmental effects of these alternative solutions are hidden or overlooked, like the chemical waste generated in producing solar cells, or the question of what will become of the batteries in hybrids) projects fizzles, someone in DC decides they need to be propped up with taxpayer funds. Solyndra ring a bell? Worse than that, we're already heavily tied to a "green" alternative that sucks up taxpayers dollars and is incredibly inefficient from both an economic and power perspective: ethanol.



LOL FOXNEWS, HERP-DERP, YOU REALLY GOT ME THERE, HUUURRRR. Please imagine me saying that out loud while I do my best Corky-from-Life-Goes-On impersonation, because I'd like that response to sound as retarded as your closing sentence.

No one is saying that there shouldn't be investment in alternative power. A lot of us are saying that the investment shouldn't be made by the taxpayer. Whoever finds that "golden ticket" solution is going to make a killing, as will anyone who invested in them. That's the incentive to take the risk of investing in these projects. History has already demonstrated what a government solution is going to look like (ethanol), and it's not like the government should be pouring (more) money down a rat-hole at present.

Your Pal,
Jubber

EDIT: Also, someone recently suggested this book to me, but I haven't read it yet, and can't vouch for it, though I'm passing it along anyway.

I'm also just going to go ahead and say that I'm a little disappointed that despite the criticism of government subsidies and other forms corporate welfare here in recent weeks, it would appear that the problem for most of you isn't that it's wrong, it's that you'd like to personally pick where it actually goes. That really doesn't make you any different than the assholes in DC.

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Note: there was something wrong with a post on page 3 that was causing that page to not load. The repair action removed a post (but I don't know what its contents were). Sorry if it was yours and it wasn't removed because some admin hates you


PS Some admin might still hate you though this has nothing to do with it.

PPS Cameo!

-Nick
Guild Master Emeritus of I Has a Bucket
Srmoocow, Level 70 Tauren Druid
Srmoonkin, 70 Flying Herb & Mine Machine Druid
Renaldo, 39 O.P. Twink Warlock
Arroyo, 50 Troll Mage
Loladìn, 30-something BE Pally
Cowgoesmoo, 20 Tauren Shaman (lol GM of Null Pointer)

NICK

do you come to these forums often or is it a once in a while thing? also, I miss you.

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[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
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[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

I imagine you doing that with everything you post, it makes a lot more sense.

Dvergar /
Quisling