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So, my building has doormen. Every year around Christmas time, they have a general xmas fund you can donate to that is dispersed equally amongst doormen. I was going to donate to this tomorrow.

Ironically, I'm walking back in the building just now and need to get my spare key as i'd left my keys at home. There's one doorman who I guess I have a more "buddy buddy" relationship with...but not really. We just say hey all the time...but I say hey to most of the doorman anyway. He just knows my name and the others don't...that's literally the only difference.

So, this doorman is working when I go to get my spare key. I say "hey can I get my spare key" and he goes to get it, and I notice that he's got xmas cards that he's opening and putting in his back pocket (obviously other residents have decided to give individual gifts to specific doorman in lieu of donating to the general fund).

He brings the key to me and says, "now I know you aren't gonna forget my gift now"

So naturally I was caught off guard, froze up and was just like "oh of course not"

So now, I feel like I have to give him money specially, and it's kind of upsetting. I mean...it's gifts...isn't it rude to like call someone out that way and be like, "oh you're not going to forget my xmas gift are you?"

I wasn't going to give him special treatment, now I feel I have to go to an ATM and get a card and give him some $$$.

Idk, should I not think that's kind of rude?

It's how he gets by. This is how the other half lives.

I think you're rude for taking him and his well-being for granted.

I mean, you're all pro-free market...this is the free market at work...everything become monetized. You think being assertive for your own wants, in your own circle of life, is a virtue - what other than small-minded bigotry leads you to apply a double standard?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I mean - I was going to donate to the general fund that is dispersed amongst all the door staff equally, why should I give him special treatment?

It just caught me off guard.

But perhaps you're right, maybe it just means that much more to him that he's willing to mention it outright. Heading to the ATM now.

As someone who has spent a goodly portion of his life as "the other half," I'm of the opinion that there is an unspoken rule about not doing what the doorman did. Hinting or outright asking about gratuities, regardless of whether they should be expected or not, is crass and undignified. It's not much better than begging. It's definitely not the same thing as going to your boss and negotiating for a raise, which would be the proper recourse if the doorman wants to be assertive about his compensation.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

It's a question of where your bread is buttered. Either way, it's not like he has any real power, so the latter is purely a matter of semantics.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Oh no, of course he doesn't have any power..."sorry, man, I can't find your back-up key down here anywhere."


Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Yeah - I still think it was kind of an inappropriate way to go about it (especially considering I was already planning on donating to the general doorman fund).

But I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he really needs money for xmas, which is why he decided to mention it to me specifically. Course now I feel like a douche not giving money to every other doorman in the same way.

I just don't think you should be guilted into giving xmas gifts. I'd never mention to any family member or anyone else "hey you gonna remember to get me something right?"

Does this make me a bigot? Idk, I just think it's simple etiquette.

Again, he's getting his card + $$$ so I guess he wins for making me feel awkward/guilty about it (though Aestu gets the assist...so maybe he should thank him too lol).

And if it helps make his life less shitty, being the "other half" then I guess I should feel warm and fuzzy inside about it.

Reminds me of this really good coffee shop right across the street from me with this one hipster waitress that's always there when I go. The last time I was there I ordered a tea to go at the counter and all she did was write it down on the ticket and give it to the person behind the counter. She then got visibly pissed and let out a long, overly loud sigh when I didn't tip her for a $3 order and 1.5 seconds of her time. I don't go there anymore.

Then again, this guy's your friend and actually does stuff for you. If you live in a place with doormen, you probably shouldn't be complaining about tipping.

PS: He could've just been fucking with you.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Yeah I guess he could've been fucking with me...but what an awkward thing to fuck with me about.

And really, he's no more my friend than any of the other doormen. And the stuff he's done for me other doormen have done as well (get packages, give me my spare key). I mean, that's their job.

Again, I was going to tip them ALL via the private doorman fund (the condo association even posts about it in all the elevators etc.)

"Need"? Well, I guess anyone could survive on table scraps from dumpster diving. Not saying he does, just saying that "need" and "want" are not so clear cut.

You yourself mentioned you're on closer terms - why? Have you never "networked" (lol) out of self-interest? Just because he doesn't use such grandiose terms to describe his life doesn't mean it isn't exactly the same thing, which is trying to butter his bread.



"Guilt"? lol. sorry you have to endure the occasional unpleasant emotion.

It's how he gets by. This is where he gets his money. He doesn't give a shit about you. Look at it from his pov, some dumb frivolous overpaid kid with no real understanding of his life predicament is his source of extra revenue.



This is why I think you're a coward. Your feeling good is not the point. The point is, it's the right thing to do.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

The guy might have been joking but if he wasn't then I wouldn't tip him. I only reward and tip individuals if their service (to me) is above that which is expected of them - I can only assume the doorman's job is to do things like retrieving keys, fetching mail, etc. So, in this case, you tip if you want to tip; you give a Christmas card if you want to give a Christmas card. I highly doubt this guy "get's by" with his once-a-year Christmas card collection so using that as the grounds for giving to him as the "right thing to do" is stupid.

Azelma, don't take Aestu seriously on this matter. Remember the firefighters that came out to Aestu's apartment to replace the fire alarm battery? Do any of us believe that Aestu sent them a Thank You card with money in it? What about the people who work at the college Aestu attends... do you think any of them got a card with money in it? Every day Aestu could encounter any number of people who provide a service (which is their job, like driving or maintaining mass transit, preparing his food or whatever else), and I doubt they get extra special consideration - After all, they are simply human filler doing what they do. His parents, who've provided more for Aestu than he'd like to admit, probably didn't get so much as a fucking 'Thank You', yet this prick is going to tell others what the "right thing to do" is?

Please tell me where I said I thought the point was to make myself feel good? I was saying the point is that if it makes his life shitty then I guess that's a good thing, and I shouldn't feel bad about "doing the right thing" as you yourself say.

I don't understand how any of this makes me a coward.

Still, you have yet to address the fact that I was (just did this morning) going to donate to the general doorman fund. Now this particular doorman will get a share of that...so he has in essence "double dipped" while the other doormen will have no such luxury.

Is that fair, Aestu?

Aestu thinks everyone's a coward dude, don't worry about it.

You don't know what you're talking about. I make a point of being gracious when someone goes above and beyond what is expected of them. I make a point of being generous when it is appropriate, e.g., tips etc.

Not everyone is as small-spirited as you.



Because you're actually factoring your "feeling bad" in. Part of courage is dealing with unpleasant emotions. Doing what is right and having the courage to ask yourself what you are feeling and why and whether it is right or correct.



You tell me. Would you approve if you got paid the same as your co-workers no matter their level of assertiveness/competence? Why is it you're on better terms with this person?

This free-market, individual initiative stuff sure looks different when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it? You have this vision of yourself as some sort of self-empowered free man, but when you look at someone else dealing with the same problems in the same way you just see him as one level above a bum.



It's close to the truth. Do you think courage is a common virtue, especially in today's world?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Answer this:

1) Did you sent the Firefighters a Thank You card with money in it for doing what they did?
2) Did you send your mail carrier, bus driver, professors, gas station attendants and store clerks cards with money in them?
3) Did you say "Thank You" to your parents for doing all that they do?

You're telling Azelma that giving the guy extra money for a holiday/for doing his job, is the 'right thing to do' but I'm almost certain that you can't honestly answer Yes to the above questions.