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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:58 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Eturnalshift wrote:
1) Did you sent the Firefighters a Thank You card with money in it for doing what they did?


Firefighters are salaried. They don't expect tips and it's probably illegal to tip them. I did thank them graciously, which goes a long way.

Eturnalshift wrote:
2) Did you send your mail carrier, bus driver, professors, gas station attendants and store clerks cards with money in them?


See above, those are all salaried positions and it's probably illegal to tip them. I don't have any local store clerks because I shop at a chain and I don't go to gas stations because I don't drive. If I did, I most certainly would, that is how I was raised.

Eturnalshift wrote:
3) Did you say "Thank You" to your parents for doing all that they do?


I do - so far as it is appropriate. My parents know full well that for all their mistakes, incompetence, indifference and outright destructive behavior they did some things very right and I've never denied that to them or anyone else. See above.

Eturnalshift wrote:
You're telling Azelma that giving the guy extra money for a holiday, and not for doing his job, is the 'right thing to do' but I'm almost certain that you can't honestly answer Yes to the above questions.


The questions aren't relevant because the comparisons are faulty. Doormen expect tips. Salaried professionals don't and probably can't. When it is appropriate to tip I am generous. And I always express my sincere gratitude for a job well done, which is deceptively rare and important.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:05 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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Whether or not the guy needs it, wants it, deserves it or not, asking for it the way he did, with the variables that were in play, was rude.

You should've asked him if he remembered your gift. He would have either:

- Said he was kidding.
- Lied about being serious, and claimed he was kidding.
- Been totally serious, in which case, you both now in a loose sense owe each other something. His counter offer kind of detracts from the rudeness.

Or, he may have went completely rude mode and said something along the lines of only you should be getting a gift for him. In which case, you probably stop the little talking you do with him all together.

Gifts aren't the same as tips. Even so though, you don't ask for either in polite conversation.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:16 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Weena wrote:
You should've asked him if he remembered your gift...

Gifts aren't the same as tips. Even so though, you don't ask for either in polite conversation.

Sure they are. Welcome to capitalism, where everything is monetized. Their relationship is professional and unequal. The "gift" such as it is has significant value and will make a difference in his lifestyle.

This is the flip side of capitalist libertarianism. The moral cost. The impact of treating oneself as a commodity.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:27 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:31 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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For an atheist you sure are preachy.


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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:32 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Usdk wrote:
For an atheist you sure are preachy.


So? Why is that bad?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:35 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Aestu wrote:
Doormen expect tips. Salaried professionals don't and probably can't. When it is appropriate to tip I am generous. And I always express my sincere gratitude for a job well done, which is deceptively rare and important.

Should they expect tips? Doormen often belong to unions in larger cities and that means they have access to benefits packages which include health care, dental and contribution to union retirement plans by their companies. A doorman's pay might not be as low as you think considering that most are unionized and they do get benefits. Hell, he might even be a salaried If the doorman was doing his job then why can't a simple, "Thank you" be sufficient for Azelma when an "expression of sincere gratitude" is good enough for you?

In my search to find if Doormen could be salaried employees, I came across this NYT post about the Service Employees International Union and an agreement that averted a strike in 2010.

Quote:
On average, the union’s members earn about $40,000, roughly $20 an hour, a union spokesman said. They also receive medical and dental care for themselves and their families, as well as 10 paid sick days, vacation and pensions. The owners estimated the total annual cost of employing a member of the union at more than $68,000.


SEIU is the same union that operates in Chicago, SEIU 1, and they actively ensure that their members get all the union protections and perks, like scheduled pay increases, healthcare for the individual and family, paid time off, etc. I think it's important to point out that Illinois isn't a Right to Work state.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:39 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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We know you hate any kind of bargaining that doesn't benefit you personally but just because he may or may not be unionized does not mean he's rolling in cash, and even if he is you're contradicting your claimed belief that assertiveness and merit should be rewarded.

Essentially, you're arguing in favor of unions getting everything their people could want or need, whether they've earned it as individuals or gone above and beyond or not, instead of it being conferred on a voluntary basis. Doesn't that contradict your supposed libertarian views? Or am I right in my assessment that really means "I got mine"?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:28 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Aestu, I think the problem is "when is it appropriate to be assertive?"

If the doorman is not happy with his compensation, by all means I encourage him to be assertive to his boss. I encourage him to drum up support from his fellow doormen. I encourage him to demand a pay raise.

However, being "assertive" about gifts or tips? That's sort of inappropriate. Just like if you are a server at a restaurant...there's an unwritten rule that you never A: complain about tips to the person tipping you (by all means bitch to your coworkers if someone stiffs you) B: request a tip or a better tip

What would you think if a server at a restaurant gave you very good service, and as he hands you the check he goes "now, you're going to remember to tip me well, right?"

That's not being a capitalist...it's just being inappropriate.


Again, this specific doorman has done very little that's above and beyond his normal job for me. The only thing he did differently was learn my name so he says it whenever I greet him. In fact, he's actually yelled at me a few times this past year - once when I didn't break down a large cardboard box before throwing it in the cardboard pile (there were already several un-broken down boxes there ironically, which is why I didn't think to initially, and another time when I was slightly inebriated and kind of slapped the elevator button "don't smack my elevator button like that now!")

If anything, I feel he's recognized that I am a nice and passive person and that he can "boss me around" in essence. Now that I think about these past occurrences...I'm starting to wonder if I'm just an easy target for him, so he feels emboldened to demand a special gift.

Congrats Aestu, you've succeeded in making me rethink this entire situation. This guy kind of acts like a dick towards me.


Azelma

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Last edited by Azelma on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:37 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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Quote:
"when is it appropriate to be assertive?"


And there it is.

Quote:
However, being "assertive" about gifts or tips? That's sort of inappropriate.


I'd say way more than 'sort of inappropriate'.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:20 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Usdk wrote:
For an atheist you sure are preachy.


They obviously don't have a lot of atheists in North Carolina. I'm surprised they haven't started going door-to-door yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:43 pm  
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French Faggot
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Because he definitely wasn't just reminding you to pay into the mutual pool that they all receive from or anything.

And Azelma's an easy mark.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:46 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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It was rude of him to ask/say that.

I think weena's restaurant analogy is pretty spot on. Even if you get the worlds best waiter with perfect service it's still rude of them to remind you to tip them or to ask for more and if it happened to me i would request a different waiter the following time.
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 Post subject: Re: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:00 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Monotheist wrote:
I think weena's restaurant analogy is pretty spot on.


Excuse me - that was MY analogy! lol


Yuratuhl wrote:
Because he definitely wasn't just reminding you to pay into the mutual pool that they all receive from or anything.


He wasn't. Besides why would he feel the need to remind me about such a thing? I have no idea.


Yuratuhl wrote:
Azelma's an easy mark.


it's true, I am. Every time I try to get mad and not be...someone like Aestu swoops in and makes me feel like shit. I'm too empathetic and kind. It's weakness.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Is This Rude?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:13 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm
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The sense I get is he was fucking with you. If he feels you guys are buddy buddy like you mentioned, he may not feel as compelled to remain 100% professional.

Tipping is a two way street. You really shouldn't ask for or expect it, but at the same time people that continually stiff servers need to diaf. Mayos example is not what I would classify as stiffing a server, FYI.


Brawlsack

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