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You guys are totally missing the point about the flag. It is a part of history and represents a time when the southern man stood up and said "No more! I am a man with god-given rights. Natural rights that I have been imbued with from birth, and I won't let you take away my rights to own niggers"

But noooo, leave it up to you liberals to just fabricate an issue. Just because I am celebrating a rich heritage of believing black people are sub-humans who belong in chains doesn't mean I'm racist. My black neighbors still talk to me so clearly whatever I do is not racist.

Dvergar /
Quisling

It would seem to me, if these people want to display their heritage, they ought to have an American flag.

Fuck rednecks and fuck those who'd give up a middle-to-upper-middle-class lifestyle in order to emulate those rednecks based solely on what they see on the Country Music Channel.

As a resident of a bumfuck Florida cow town --- for reference, this town still has a shitload of horse trails dispersed throughout its parks and hitching posts featured in front of most of its strip malls --- I can confirm that there's still a large portion of the (white) population in the South that subscribes to the ridiculous and outdated "Confederate" (i.e. racist, homophobic, xenophobic and anti-intellectual) ideology. Hell, three of my next-door neighbors display the flag prominently on their front porches.

And Mayo, I feel your pain in regard to the presence of chewing tobacco. Though in my case, it's fucking everywhere. Midway through the exam period during an art final I took a few years ago, the teacher actually had to replace the fucking trashbag because so many students had spit their dip into it. And never mind the trash; the dip was clogging every water fountain, filling every bathroom sink, and making every urinal look as if someone had confused his or her bathroom appliances. But I shouldn't get your hopes up by writing in the past tense, because it's still fucking everywhere.

Camo jackets/hats, faded bluejeans, knockoff Ray-Bans, construction boots, lipfuls of dip, and Guy Harvey shirts (Salt Life in particular) make up much too large a portion of my town's fashion choices. Fuck my town.

I'm really tired of this idea that somehow people being "offended" means I have to stop what I'm doing regardless of whether or not there is anything wrong with it, as if being "offended" somehow grants them some license to decide what's OK for everybody else.

Apparently the only people who understand how absolutely retarded this is are English. Ricky Gervais said, "I think offense is taken, not given. If you don't let yourself be offended, you're not offended. Some people are offended by quality; some people are offended by mixed marriage; some people are offended by homosexuality. What are we meant to do, stop all those things because someone's offended? No." He's right about those things, which actually matter, and are far more important and have more of an impact on society than some idiot flying a flag or slapping a decal on their car, so why should I give a flying fuck if someone is butthurt over a flag or sticker? Stephen Fry echoed the sentiment by saying, "It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights; it's actually nothing more...it's simply a whine. 'I find that offensive,' it has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I'm offended by that,' well so fucking what?"

Oh, but if you don't care about people offended, it's only because you're racist? Of course, that's it, no rational person is capable of just looking at it, shrugging their shoulders and thinking, "grow the fuck up." If your life is such a fucking cakewalk that your biggest complaint is some retard with a bumper sticker, you should count your fucking blessings and do us all the service of closing the smelly hole in your face.

Mayo's constant "you're/they're a racist" bullshit reminds me of something I read recently:

Bloomberg columnist Jeffrey Goldberg employs a liberal metaphor so trite as to be clichéd--but appears not to realize what he's revealing about himself in doing so:

This presidential election will be one of the most race- soaked in recent history. It is already more race-soaked than the 2008 election, which, of course, marked the first time that a black man became a major-party candidate.

I don't know why this is. Perhaps because Senator John McCain, the Republican contender in 2008, generally and admirably refused to race-bait. But the Republican candidates in today's contest aren't so meticulous about avoiding the temptation to dog-whistle their way to the nomination.

Dog-whistling--the use of coded, ambiguous language to appeal to the prejudices of certain subsets of voters--is one of the darkest political arts. In this race, Newt Gingrich is streets ahead of his nearest competitor in its use. In addition to his comments about black children working as janitors, he has repeatedly referred to Obama as the country's "food-stamp president."

Of course the real reason the campaign is "race soaked," as we suggested in today's top item, is that supporters of an incumbent president with a difficult-to-defend record have to resort to attacks on their opponents instead--and since Obama is black, accusations of racism are an obvious line of attack.

But let's dwell on this metaphor of the "dog whistle." An actual dog whistle emits a sound at a frequency too high to be heard by humans but within a canine's auditory range. A metaphorical dog whistle, then, is one that is audible to the "dogs" (in this case, purportedly racist white voters) but not to others.

We hear "food stamp president" as a criticism of government dependency, not an appeal to racism. But that doesn't invalidate the metaphor; it merely shows that we are not racist. It may be that Republican voters in places like South Carolina do hear the dog whistle, so that people like Goldberg are right. We doubt it, but it's possible.

Yet there is one group of people who acknowledge hearing the dog whistle: liberals like Jeffrey Goldberg. If you can hear a dog whistle, you are a dog. If Goldberg is right and "food stamp president" is a racist dog whistle, Goldberg is a racist "dog."

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

For every Confederate flag you display, I'm going to paint a mural of William Tecumseh Sherman.

You're allowed to wave your defeated flag. I'm allowed to remind you that you got shit on by the Union.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Oh yeah he's cool. I mean I'm fine with burning down the plantation homes as they were a symbol of all the north was fighting against(people getting rich off slavery) but he also burned down regular towns and shit of civilians that didn't own slaves.

Which I'm not ok with.

At a certain point it doesn't really matter what people in history did, the only thing that matters is what they are most remembered for. Same goes for nations/symbols/flags. If your grandfather created the Nazi flag and you fly it because you think that is interesting/worth remembering people aren't going to think "Well that's reasonable, he is just trying to remember his heritage". They're going to think "Wow, what a complete fucking douche, why would anyone show that symbol of hate?"

The confederate flag is the same thing except more time has passed, I suppose it's more localized as well. All countries are going to have some history they aren't proud of, people that are trying to preserve the history of those dark periods of human atrocities are retarded or support said atrocities... Oh you're proud that your family helped found a town in the south, but it's just a sidenote that the town was built on the backs of slaves? No. You don't get to disconnect those two facts. The flag does have historical and hertigaic(not a word, w/e) meaning. It's history is that it was based on slavery and it was inherited from slavers. Wow, what a proud fucking history.

There are two reasons that aren't 100% retarded to fly a confederate flag. The first is to remember how far we have come as a nation, and is more about refusing to forget the crimes of our forefathers. That would be flying it for historical reasons. Don't repeat the past, all that jazz. Our country isn't flawless, etc... But do that shit at a museum, not your front fucking yard. The only other acceptable reason is if you were completely ignorant of it's meaning and found it aesthetically pleasing. This would only be a valid excuse for someone in another country or in some post-apocalyptic world, and in no way would be a reasonable excuse for anyone living in the U.S.

Drominar, Petrous, Chronowrench

Agreed with Jubber's non-homo-colored post.

You guys remember that thread where we were talking about the "Ground Zero Mosque?" We all agreed that it was legally permissible but only a few of us said it was tasteless, insensitive and whatever else. Remember that the planned location of the mosque was not favored by a majority of Americans or New Yorkers for various reasons; "The Cordoba Initiative," disrespect to New York's "Sacred Ground", etc. I went back and re-read that thread because I remember a few of the people here wholeheartedly defending the Mosque from a philosophical standpoint, even though most of us said it was insensitive.

Quoted because Mayo said the Muslims could do whatever they wanted with the property they purchased with no care for whom they offend... but the moment a 'Redneck' does something that might offend a black person them OMFG WATCH OUT RACISM!

...unless the people we're talking about are people Mayo thinks might be racist, then it is the end of the world...


I can only imagine a confederate flag is just as trivial as the 'ground zero mosque,' yet it's somehow more insulting?

And then there's this...
You can draw the parallels and find the contradictory statements to the apparent position stated in this thread.

So, why is it ok to call almost everyone racists when these 'rednecks' might be doing something someone else (other than you guys) finds insensitive... but you're quick to defend the 'insensitivity' of others? It's a fucking flag. It can't do shit other than reflect light. If you see it and if it makes you shit your pants because you think back to an era none of us can remember then too damn bad.

bwahahahahahaha

FUCKING OWNED.

Ground Zero mosque was a myth. It was actually several blocks away. Several million people work in several thousand businesses in that radius of Central New York.
Then again...we should ask...why don't you know that? Why do you believe it was in fact on the site?

I don't go to Dverger's tar-and-feather extreme, or that of a lot of people, but "offensive" behavior betrays a lack of awareness of the real injustices, and in doing so, perpetuates them.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I posted that stuff to draw a parallel and point out that a few people are being hypocritical. There was a reason I asked in my first post, "What does that make you," because I know exactly what it makes them... I was just seeing if they'd be honest with themselves.

Oh, and if you want to continue the Ground Zero Mosque discussion you can do that in this thread, although the post I linked should answer your question in the second paragraph.

If you're trying to use that thread as an example of how we're being inconsistent, I am afraid to say that you have failed miserably Eturnal (well, I think Usdk approves, but...). The whole point of that thread was to say that people are against the mosque at ground zero because they are ignorant. The people who want to build it are not Al-Qaeda, they are not terrorists; the ONLY thing that they have in common with the terrorists is that they are Muslim. Now, if they were wanting to build an Al-Qaeda educational center where you can learn to make homemade bombs, how to fly planes into buildings, and how to kill as many innocent people as possible in a single attack, then yes I can agree that such a building so close to Ground Zero would be tasteless.

HOWEVER

That is not the intended function of the building. It isn't even solely a mosque. It is a community center, where all people are welcome. It does NOT support terrorism is any way. The ONLY thing that makes it "tasteless" to you guys is that a Muslim wants to build it and that Muslims will be using it. These are not acceptable reasons for opposing the center. Remember, Muslims =/= terrorist, unless you are a racist, ignorant, uneducated punk.

Now, what about the confederate flag? Well, it is akin to (as someone mentioned before) the Swastika. It is a symbol of hate. Why was the civil war fought for again? Mainly, slavery. Not fucking "states' rights", that's the copout answer that dumbasses use when pushed to a corner and are getting their arguments ripped to shreds. There really is nothing good to remember from the South anyway. It's best to just remember they got "fucking owned" as our dear Usdk would put it.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
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[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

I'm always amused when The Great Reader fails to grasp the point of what has been written.

Fanta, I don't think anyone is saying that the mosque shouldn't be built in this thread or the other one, Eternal was saying that Mayo's "people being offended" routine in this thread is inconsistent with his "fuck people being offended" routine in the other one. Clearly he's not concerned about people being offended, he's concerned about which people are being offended.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I grasp the "point" entirely.

You believe that everyone has as much an inclination to react with bigotry and paranoia to accusations proven false as you.

New York is a diverse community. If you are a hardcore bigot you cannot get by there because you rub arms with people of every background, every day. The Muslims are a fact of life, 9-11 or no, and in a community like that people have a bit more perspective than the rednecks. This is characteristic of most major metropolitan areas. The hubbub about the "Ground Zero Mosque" was driven largely by people who weren't New Yorkers, just like the Iraq/Afghan wars.

Islam is a faith practiced by millions with a diversity in format and beliefs comparable to Christianity. It means many different things to many different people, and it has a history going back a thousand years.

The Confederate flag, by contrast, has only one historical context: a war fought to keep black people as slaves. It is a symbol honored only by a homogenous group of Americans regarded by their countrymen as a disgrace to the country and by the larger world as the most ignorant and bigoted people on the face of the planet.

Your argument is invalid.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yeah, probably because one of them actually represents the institutionalized oppression of a race of people for hundreds of years whereas the other is a community center that's the projection of your fear of brown people in America.

How do you feel about the nazi flag, btw?

EDIT: Pretty sure I've been consistent, mainly because the qualms of racists should be ignored. If I'm a hypocrite because I don't give a fuck about the feelings of people who are shitting their pants in fear about this country becoming an Islamic theocracy, then fine, you've got me.

There's a reason that there's only 2 people on this board that agree with you, and I have no idea why Jubber's on your side on this, because the same people who would fly their idiot flag high and proud would probably pelt rocks at him and tell him to go home to Mexico. God forbid that his kid is half-white, they'd probably lynch him for that.

DOUBLE EDIT: Then again, Jubber rallies behind people who would be more than happy to send his job overseas, wipe out his savings, foreclose on his house, and leave him to rot in the street. Maybe its a character flaw.

RETIRED.
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