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How? Compassion for parents and children everywhere? Reverence for the marvel that is the genesis of life? Unfathomable insight into parent/child relationships?

Clearly, all those things come naturally, once one gets some male gametes in the Fallopian tubes.

...Yeah, no.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

All of a sudden realizing that you created life (once the child is born) and having another human being that is completely 100% dependent on you for care has to change you in some way. I refuse to believe it doesn't. I'm not saying it turns you into the worlds greatest parent, or the ultimate humanitarian...but your assertion that it changes nothing is ridiculous.

You are a terrible debater, stop talking in absolutes. When you present an argument as 'all of x' or 'y MUST DO z' you make it incredibly easy to shoot down your arguments by simply proving an exception.

Not only is that good form in a debate, it's good form in life. You are at times overly naive but you're not stupid enough to believe that finding out you knocked someone up has to change you. There are an extreme number of examples to the contrary.

Likewise, you need to point out that Aestu is misrepresenting Dooj's argument that experience counts. Aestu can't argue to the contrary, so he instead has you trying to defend an argument that wasn't previously made. No one believes conception imparts knowledge, and no one claimed it did. I disagree on many of the particulars of the argument when used in this case, but experience does count.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Read what I wrote again - it wasn't about knocking someone up...it was about being there for the birth of the child ("once the child is born") or realizing that you have another human being that is completely 100% dependent on you has to change you in some way. I was not speaking in absolutes, as I'm sure there are plenty of asshole deadbeat fathers who knocked a woman up then turn the other way and run.

BUT - for those who stick it out, witness the birth, and/or start taking care of the child (IE: "parenting" what this whole discussion is about), they are changed in SOME way....could even be a bad way...I just refuse to believe if you see a child being born, and you start taking care of it that you're just like "yeah I'm the exact same as I was before...this changes literally nothing"


But yes I'm a terrible debater - that is a good point.

So why don't you just stop goading Aestu in every single thread then if you know you aren't going to win?

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

I hope you have the chance to be a dad some day... not just spread your seed, but actually be a dad. Should that day ever come just remember your opinions in this thread.

You are stilll saying it has to change you. It doesn't have to. That is the absolute.



These are qualifiers, they are what you lacked in your first statement. However, even with these you would still be talking in absolutes (the people who do all of the above MUST be changed). I'm not saying I disagree, just pointing out the difference.

The problem is that you think one thing and post another. You understand what you mean, and so your arguments reflect your understanding. You can't say 'ALL x are y', then when proved false say 'oh well yeah I know not ALL of them but, ya know, most'.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Yeah I think I just suck at expressing myself completely at times. Good tips mate.

I used to to the same thing all the time. I still fail at clearly communicating more often than I like.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Good scrimmage, Dvergar. No, really.

The point of my post, although I made it way too diffuse with sarcasm, is that Dooj is also presenting arguably the greyest thing in the world - "being there" as a parent - in absolutes.

What's the criteria for that? I would argue that many, if not most, parents - certainly mine - pretty much AFK through their kids' lives, paying the bills, going through the motions, but never really "being there".

There are shades of grey of course, from parents like Azelma's mom to parents who are just out of touch and inept, but the fact is that the parents I'm making the center of my viewpoint are the broad majority of parents, the parents who are "there" but not really "into it".



I am very aware of my own shortcomings in this respect. Partly it's due to my thought processes being extremely dense and high-frequency and coming out poorly when related literally in written or verbal form.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

And I always thought you just used BIG WORDS, overly-verbose sentences and endless streams of irrelevant questions because you wanted people to think you're some super deep smart guy when you actually aren't.

Actually, the opposite is true. I wouldn't mind a bullet to the brainpan to put me out of my misery.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

And you never thought I just used short words, susscint sentences and only the occasional relevant answers because I don't want nobody to know I'm some unintelligent woman when I actually am?

I think that pretty well sums up my view, yes.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

One who can't spell succinct, as well.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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