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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:08 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Necrachilles wrote:
Didn't read this but I'm going to explain it to you.

He's not saying $170,000 a year is a bad salary. He's saying that for the time and effort put into doing their jobs and getting there, the salary is bad.

Basically, it's like if you went to college and got all kinds of mad degrees and were working at Burger King for minimum wage. You could make so much more elsewhere.

Least that's what he's saying unless I misread. You just assumed he was flat out saying that it was a bad salary without the in comparison to what could be made.


When explained that way, his argument makes more sense...but I must ask:

Necrachilles wrote:
for the time and effort put into doing their jobs and getting there, the salary is bad.

Basically, it's like if you went to college and got all kinds of mad degrees and were working at Burger King for minimum wage. You could make so much more elsewhere.


I think your burger king argument is a bit of hyperbole, but I see what you're saying. Are Doctors then under compensated (given all the years of medical school and associated costs?


http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291069.htm

Other physicians/surgeons mean annual wage $180,000

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291065.htm

Pediatricians, mean annual wage $155,000

What about architects who design buildings etc? (I know for a fact that those getting grad degrees in architecture have ridiculous study hours/class hours, have to do loads of unpaid internships, etc. just to get where they are

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes171011.htm

Mean annual wage is $80,000

For Lawyers:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes231011.htm

Mean annual wage is $129,440



Seems to me, politicians salaries are just about right. How much should they be paid?


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:12 pm  
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Wow, that was a good one.

Just out of curiosity...what makes corporations spending money on lobbying any different from other organizations that spend money on lobbying, like PETA, The Sierra Club, Greenpeace, or Planned Parenthood? I get the impression that you're ignoring half the problem only because you're opposed to the parties currently winning the bidding war, and not because the practice itself is corrupt (which it is).

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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:14 pm  
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Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
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I don't know what to tell you, I was just explaining what Aestu said as best I could. Given the Burger King deal was meh but it was as direct as I could think of.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:29 pm  
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Azelma wrote:
Seems to me, politicians salaries are just about right. How much should they be paid?

You are an idiot. Those citations aren't relevant because those professions typically aren't paid a wage unless the professional has been all but run out of the field.

My father, for example, earns about the listed wage (adjusted) as a doctor only because he's blind and has to work a desk. When he worked in private practice he was a lot better off, and 20 years later he would be even more so if he could see.

There is also the issue of public trust - paying politicians $200k instead of $100k is a small price to pay for the benefit of insulating the system against corruption. It is not even a question of intentions, it is that people who are needing for money are fundamentally more likely to be inclined to compromise their position even if they are not inherently dishonest. Russian and Mexican cops vs American cops for example: the former are notoriously more corrupt because they are not paid enough to get by comfortably.

There's also the question of lifestyle. Driving a Yugo to work may be fine for a manager or private practice professional or whatever, and the worst that could happen is making oneself or the firm look bad. For politicians, however, their lifestyle is a reflection on their constituency and even the entire country. That doesn't mean they need to live Donald Trump lifestyles, but it does mean they need to maintain a certain level of decorum. A family that earns $80-150k annually, while better off than most, certainly cannot meet any incidental expense comfortably. $200k a year is a good balance between that and simply rich.

The pay is fine. All your arguments boil down to you being a sad little loser who is butthurt that some people have motivations bigger than yours.

Jubbergun wrote:
Just out of curiosity...what makes corporations spending money on lobbying any different from other organizations that spend money on lobbying, like PETA, The Sierra Club, Greenpeace, or Planned Parenthood? I get the impression that you're ignoring half the problem only because you're opposed to the parties currently winning the bidding war, and not because the practice itself is corrupt (which it is).


Because pure greed is more evil than some sort of moral or philosophical viewpoint, however imperfect it may be.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:37 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Also Azelma, you're spamming links trying to look informed, but in reality you are proving again your stupidity and ignorance. Read the statistics. Don't just spam links, read, analyze, use brain, etc.

Every profession you linked gets paid MORE than politicians - often by a large margin - when you exclude those working outside their field, i.e, in government or education. Especially true of doctors - a teaching doctor (like my father) earns less than 100k, a practitioner earns 160-200k.

Quote:
Colleges, Universities, and Professional Schools: $99,190

Outpatient Care Centers: $182,090
Offices of Other Health Practitioners : $181,010


Lawyers, same deal, cut out government and they earn more than politicians, and that doesn't include hourly fees etc.

Quote:
State Government (OES Designation) : $82,190

Electronic Shopping and Mail-Order Houses: $182,130
Specialty (except Psychiatric and Substance Abuse) Hospitals: $181,630


So, bam. There you go. Your own statistics completely contradict your own position.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:41 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Azelma wrote:
Seems to me, politicians salaries are just about right. How much should they be paid?


$200k a year is a good balance between that and simply rich.

The pay is fine


Aestu wrote:
The pay is fine


Azelma wrote:
Seems to me, politicians salaries are just about right


Aestu wrote:
The pay is fine


Azelma wrote:
Seems to me, politicians salaries are just about right


You are arguing that they should be paid $30,000-$50,000 more than they are now (that is not that drastic of a difference). I don't necessarily agree, but I'll accept that.

I never said they were over paid. I NEVER SAID THEY WERE OVER PAID. TELL ME WHERE I SAID THAT??

I SAID THAT IT WAS A GOOD SALARY AND THAT THEY WERENT DRASTICALLY UNDER PAID.

WHY DONT YOU FUCKING READ WHAT I WRITE?



Bleh I'm done. Fine pay them $200,000 a year (a whopping $30,000 more than they already earn) if you think that'll be enough. The point is, they aren't drastically underpaid.


Azelma

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Last edited by Azelma on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:44 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Looks to me like this is "you can't fire me, I quit" transposed into the world of rhetoric. You debunk your own argument then try to say you never made it.

Azelma wrote:
I never said they were over paid. I NEVER SAID THEY WERE OVER PAID. TELL ME WHERE I SAID THAT??


So if that's not your argument then what have you been arguing about politician salaries and making comparisons etc for two pages?

What is your argument, then?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Because pure greed is more evil than some sort of moral or philosophical viewpoint, however imperfect it may be.


So, like I said, because you object to the parties winning the bidding war. Got ya.

I remember seeing a study done a while back about how becoming a member of congress generally improves an individual's net worth by some ridiculous amount over a period of time during/after their service. I'll see if I can find that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:59 pm  
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Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
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Bro, he wasn't saying they were overpaid. He's saying that people like his mom are being underpaid, duh.



Honestly, it's like this.


Just a bunch of miscommunication and poor reading. Neither one of you is arguing about the same thing at this point.


Shake your dicks, this pissing contest is over.








Edit: One of the other mods can unlock this thread. I just wanted to look like a badass.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:41 am  
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French Faggot
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This really just happened, didn't it.

Conclusion: no one goes into politics for the money. Anyone who thinks otherwise is objectively stupid.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
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 Post subject: Re: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:20 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Yuratuhl wrote:
This really just happened, didn't it.

Conclusion: no one goes into politics for the money. Anyone who thinks otherwise is objectively stupid.


Just for the record I never said people go into politics for the money either. ;)


Azelma

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 Post subject: Why Jushiro Is Bitching
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:29 am  
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Azelma, it boils down like this:

Aestu isn't saying $170k a year isnt a lot of money.

He's saying most politicians could make much more, with a lot less to worry about.

Visualize yourself as a member of the Senate on the Armed Services Committee, or National Security Advisor, etc.

Iran has just announced they have developed nuclear weapons capable of reaching the east coast. Israel has begun a precision bombing campaign targeting Iran's silos. The global oil market is going ape shit as a result of this news. It's 4:30 in the morning and you just received this news 30 minutes ago. Stock market opens at 8 am or whatever. You were supposed to be on vacation the rest of this week and were planning on watching your sons baseball game on Long Island, incidentally about 45 minutes away from one of Iran's potential targets. You were out drinking last night at a social function and have gotten about 3 hours of sleep.

Shit just got real, didn't it?


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