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The military.

Remove that and see what the statistics look like.

/end thread

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I guess I don't understand how you can just decide to remove one section of public employees because they are skewing the data? Why shouldn't the military count if they are government employees?

By that standard couldn't we just say "remove all CEOs/Executives from the private sector"?

Because you don't get shot at in a cubicle.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

So it's a question of the danger they are facing? It makes the data for their compensation invalid?

There are many people in the private sector who work outside of cubicles and have dangerous occupations. Should we remove them?

No, not at all.

This is what Eisenhower noted as "...yes, even spiritual, power, of the military-industrial complex."

All things considered, a base in Poland or Korea, or a carrier on the high seas, or even behind a 20-foot-high wall in Iraq, are some of the safest places in the world to be. High security, no traffic, tight control over all goings-on.

What motivates the high pay is the "spiritual power" of the military, i.e., "IMMA DEFENDIN MUH CUNTRY AGAINST DEM BAD GAIS". e.g., Eturnal/Jubber. This "spiritual power" trickles down through the entire chain of military supply to those enormous base towns in Virgina and the Midwest that brag about their awesome economy that consist of nothing but redistributed tax money.

This "spiritual power" leads the military to justify exorbitant salaries. It's really only in the military that a high school dropout can walk in and pull down more than some professionals.

And don't forget that graduates of military academies not only get their education at public expense but also earn a degree in the course of obtaining their commission, and then go right onto the public payroll as "college graduates" earning six digits a year when benefits are factored in.

So, there you go.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Cool - I'll buy in to all of those reasons you just cited for people in the military having higher wages. It also can help explain why the statistics are skewed so heavily towards the public sector for people with less education.

But I don't think that is a valid reason to discount all of the data entirely. We could explain that the private sector's wages are higher (especially for those with higher education levels) because of executive compensation. Doesn't mean we should just pull all of that data out because it might be skewing some things.

I guess we can all agree that the military budget is ridiculous.

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Want to buy a vowel?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Wheel of Fortune was never my game.

Right, whatever.

Anyway, the point is, you were prepared to use the data to prove your argument. When the utility of the data to your argument is debunked, you immediately then try to defeat the data that you yourself offered.

The only constant is the point you are arguing - not what you would call facts - proving that your position is hopelessly ignorant and biased. Were it not so, contention would follow facts, not the other way around.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

The only argument I've made is that clearly the private sector isn't massively destroying the public sector in terms of average compensation across the board. You can't remove the military (who are a part of the public sector) because it gives inconvenient results.

Mostly, though, I was saying "this is some interesting data"

I may have misunderstood because I just skimmed the dick slapping between you and Azelma, but weren't you saying how politicians were paid appropriately because of all the off-hour work they do, the stress involved, etc? Members of the military have just as stressful of a job, if not more, and unless you're a life-long member of the services you're making considerably less than the politicians you were defending in another thread. Considering that, why would you want to remove the military? They're hard working people who earn a modest living...

Anyways, let's get into 'Willful Ignorance'

First, to join the military you need to have either a GED or a High School diploma, as the services almost never join anyone without either of those two. They have three tiers of enlistment, where Tier 3 is the 'high school dropout' I think you're referencing. They're incredibly rare, if existent at all. At the very least a recruiter would push for the candidate to get a GED (Vocational school, home schooling and other systems fall into this Tier 2 category) since they have a better chance of enlistment over Tier 3. Even as a Tier 2 candidate, you still have a lower chance of joining the military than if you had a High School Diploma. In all cases, the candidate joins the military as an E1, making (according to the pay scales) almost 18K/yr. That is excluding health benefits and the other allowances.

If you're a professional with a college degree and you can't land a job making more than 18K/yr with benefits then you need to really look at yourself and question why you're so bad. I started, professionally, making 38K/yr as my base salary, excluding benefits. For an NCO to pull that kind of pay they'd need to have around a decade of time in the service with the rank of E6 or so.

Members of military academies are some of the hardest working high school students. Using West Point, as an example... they need to have incredibly high SAT/ACT scores, they need to have high GPAs, be very physically fit, be involved in numerous extra-curricular activities and even get congressional approval for candidacy... and after all that, there's no guarantee that they could be selected to the school. Only about 1200 students get into West Point, and about 1000 of them will graduate. While at the school, the students attend classes year-round (since sometimes they have to work and study over the summer), have long days (waking early in the morning for PT), harsh punishments (because the military doesn't put up with Aestu's quite like the university Aestu's parents pay for), and little time to study as their days are filled with other activities. When the students graduate, they get a BS and they enter the military as an O1, making around 40K/yr. How you say they get some six-digit salary at graduation is probably you talking out your ass again.

Stressful in what way?

See, Eturnalshift proves my argument. This is the spiritual power of the military. Only priests can understand what God wants, and only people on the take can understand how impossibly, unfathomably hard it is to take potshots at a dummy or sit on a base.



A GED is (literally) stupid easy to get (I have one, as a matter of fact).

It's interesting that your strongest argument for the substance of the job is that it requires a qualification that takes functional literacy, an IQ or about 85, and three hours of a single day to obtain.



"...cogent only when the facts contradicting it are excluded..."



You already provided the answer yourself.

Lunch...and housing...and medical care...and insurance...and pension...aren't free just because the taxpayers pay for it.

Man, it's "sickening" how some ingrates live off taxpayers. Sickening!



I won't disagree with that. The point stands. The net effect is that they pump up the statistic.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

This is one of those instances where you're knowledge on something, based on things that you've read, does you no justice.


It's not my argument, champ. I'm simply providing the facts that you didn't care to look up. You said any drop-out could get paid more than a professional by joining the military... so I proved that it is highly unlikely that would happen.

PS: High School diplomas are easy to get, too... well, for everyone else but you. They're free and all you have to do is show up. Inb4 "I got my GED because I was too smart for HS."


Interesting you should say that, considering you were trying to eliminate one of the variables from the equation to make the numbers different. Comparing base pay to base pay, you're wrong... again.


Let's not forget that service members pay taxes...

Anyways, back to the point. Annual BAH for an O1 will range between 700-1200, depending on where they're stationed. That comes out to 8400-14400, annually, for living expenses. Pensions are paid after retirement, so I can't really include them into the equation... and medical care and insurances, I don't have numbers for. I have a hard time believing there are an extra 45K in benefits paid to an O1. Since you're making the claim, provide the proof.

PS: There are places via google that say an O4 with 10 years experiences still doesn't make six figures...

PPS: I'M AESTU I CAN NEVER BE WRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG...........

Since the GIF I wanted to link isn't working, you'll just have to settle for this completely unrelated youtube.