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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:54 pm  
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French Faggot
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It's too small to go supernova, but even main sequence dwarves greatly expand when they start fusing helium into carbon. The sun will briefly (couple million years) be a red giant, before it shrinks into a white dwarf. That's gonna be all she wrote for the Earth.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:18 pm  
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Blathering Buffoon
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it was my understanding that the proposed reach of red giant Sol would only envelop as far as Venus. underground civilizations ftw. also, if an Earthly civilization has yet to figure out interstellar travel by then, they deserve to live underground on a pressure cooker planet for a million years and then freeze to death.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:15 pm  
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After watching s2e01 of Through the Wormhole, I learned that our first method of contacting intelligent life will be to throw our mathematic methods at them. Almost to say, "Hey, we're pretty smart. What've you guys been up to?" Apparently they think it will be a pleasant way of communicating because if we communicate pi in the form of music, it'll warm up the atmosphere with heat and light.


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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:10 am  
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Twittering Twat
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Xeoni wrote:
After watching s2e01 of Through the Wormhole, I learned that our first method of contacting intelligent life will be to throw our mathematic methods at them. Almost to say, "Hey, we're pretty smart. What've you guys been up to?" Apparently they think it will be a pleasant way of communicating because if we communicate pi in the form of music, it'll warm up the atmosphere with heat and light.


I imagine any intelligent life we ever contact would probably be far more intelligent then our own. The ability to receive any messages through space is extremely recent for us. So if we contact a race at a random point in their development after they discover such communication, it's a blind shot if we contact them at the beginning of that understanding (point 1) or their extinction (point 100). I guess that window might only be a few hundred years for some races but it would also have to be like a hundred thousand years for others just by probability/eventualities, right? It would be sorta terrifying to connect with an ancient crazy smart race, we would be retarded apes (or minnows, grubs, whatever their race resembles) in their eyes.

Do we have any messages zooming through space right now? At what point would they deteriorate or trail off?

I'm going to stop thinking about this stuff because there are no achievable answers currently and my mind jumps to the bad results...


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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:07 am  
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Blathering Buffoon
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then jodie foster will meet her dadalien


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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:15 pm  
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I think it is unlikely that extraterrestrial life possesses superhuman intelligence because it is unlikely that any normal evolutionary process would have reason to produce intelligence much beyond the level of humans. And I think that evolution is a sufficiently effective process that it is unlikely that any artificial process would be able to push the physical limitations of organic functions far past the level of Earth creatures without tradeoffs that would make the organism non-viable.

Convergent evolution dictates that nature solves similar problems in similar ways.

It is therefore logical to conclude that extraterrestrial life is likely to be either very similar to life on Earth, or completely different, depending on whether other worlds are similar to or different from Earth.

The proper analogy is considering creatures on Earth that have evolved in environments that are for all intents and purposes discrete from what we consider mainstream evolution. This includes creatures indigenous to places like Tasmania or Madagascar, or in the deep sea. Whales, giant squid, platypus and kangaroos may seem strange to us, but they are not so strange that they are beyond our reckoning.

Whales are smart, probably only slightly less intelligent than we are, and octopi are in some respects (spatial intelligence and physical coordination) more intelligent than we are. Therefore it is likely that alien life will possess some comparable balance of strengths and weaknesses compared to us.

Now what we have in common with these creatures, that we would not have in common with aliens, are the fundamentals of the Terran biosphere: abundance of certain elements, and a certain level of gravity, air pressure, and solar radiation. It therefore seems likely to me that Terran life will prove most similar to other life with certain available elements, while lifeforms with different levels of gravity, air pressure, and elements will be distinct.

However, given that the laws of chemistry which establish the limitations of biological and evolutionary processes are universal, I think it is unlikely that lifeforms in any setting will dazzle humans with their raw capabilities so much as with nature's creativity in solving problems. Again, the best analogy is creatures that live in deep seas or rainforests. They are not fantastically smart or strong, but they are very remarkable in adapting to the conditions in which they live.

Here on Earth we see that evolutionary processes are iterative and reactionary, and therefore, there are exponentially fewer complex lifeforms than simple ones. If there is no benefit to making an organism more complex, then nature will not make that tradeoff. Therefore, I think we will find that most worlds that have life, have only simple unicellular lifeforms, and more complex life will prove progressively rarer.

Since intelligent alien life would be the product of natural evolutionary processes, just as we are, it is likely that their intelligence would grapple with the same difficulties and limitations that our own does, namely, the conflict between organized thought and emotional, instinctive chaos, and the conflict between being a product of insensible evolutionary processes and being able to step outside the box and control nature, while coping with the limits of our own wisdom.

Therefore, I think that aliens are actually likely to be much more charitable regarding human stupidity than we are.

If humans ever contact aliens, I think that given the laws of physics, it's most likely that humans and aliens will become "pen pals", writing letters back and forth, eagerly waiting on a response, trying to learn about each other's worlds without ever seeing them, and of course, skewing the picture by way of the propensity of both sides to engage in posturing and projection.

I think that science fiction will actually prove quite reliable as a predictor of what it's like out there, just as Clarke, Huxley and Bradbury novels proved reliable predictors of what the internet era would be like. I think that Star Control II and Star Wars will actually prove pretty accurate: other races, with other sensibilities, and their own unique strengths, weaknesses, and agendas, no more remarkable than our own.

Worth pointing out: what non-human race (i.e., discounting the Androsynth and Syreen) in Star Control II is most psychologically similar to humans?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:18 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Dotzilla wrote:
then jodie foster will meet her dadalien


I peed a little whilest giggling.


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 Post subject: Black holes: Not if, but when
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:17 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox


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