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If the goal is to teach you to reason and debate effectively, I am prepared to accept winning by losing.

Actually, I had already been considering as such before this thread.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't believe this score is possible.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

Thanks for that.

Could you comment on 'Harassment' and if calling the cops on someone and/or following that someone is 'Harassment' or does there need to be more?

GET IN PEOPLES BUSINESS AND INTERVENE IN FIGHTS, REGARDLESS OF YOUR ABILITY, INSTEAD OF CALLING THE COPS
Good Samaritan

CALL COPS IF YOU FIND SOMEONE, OR SOMETHING, SUSPICIOUS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD
Teenage-murdering racist with intent to harass and get in someone elses business.

Actually, yeah, pretty much.

If other people had intervened (assuming they were even present which I find dubious for many reasons), Zimmerman would not have been injured and Martin would not be dead.

A 17-year-old boy is not going to go Rambo against two or more adults. But of course since he is black we immediately assume he's Mike Tyson. Right?

If Zimmerman called the cops and patiently waited at distance as he was supposed to, no engagement would have occurred. How did he even get out of his car to be beaten unless he stepped out of it?

You're saying that people shouldn't intervene in life-threatening situations, but that someone got beat up for just calling the cops?

If:
A. There were bystanders
B. All Zimmerman did was call the cops

Then why did Zimmerman get in a fracas and not anyone else? How does this kid know Zimmerman was "calling the cops" and not his own girlfriend? Why single him out amongst whoever else was standing around?

And if you think that people shouldn't intervene in life-threatening situations then when should they intervene? When the matter is trivial and not life threatening? But it's okay to shoot people dead rather than try to sort situations out?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Hmm let's see


Mike Tyson = black person

Trayvon Martin = black person

Therefore:

Trayvon Martin = Mike Tyson


Makes sense to me!

That is the implied assumption, yes.

Upon what other basis would we believe this boy is a match for two or more adults?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Wait, wait... I got it. CHEWBACCA!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH.


It was a cold, rainy night. People don't normally stand around and I doubt any were in this case. The witnesses were people who heard the screaming and looked out their windows.

Ninja Edit:

This 'kid' was 17 years old, around 6' tall and weight about 165lbs. From what we've seen, he had a fairly athletic build and he's capable of taking down another man and pummeling him for over a minute until he had some holes poked in his body.

icwutudidthar

vry clvr

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I think if this guy gets convicted it'll be more by the media firestorm than any evidence brought to the jury. That "shadow of a doubt" thing is tricky when there's no witnesses and a good defense lawyer.

Has there been any word on his attorney yet? I haven't heard anything.

Zimmerman could have used a warning shot. His intent or lack of intent to kill doesn't matter as far as the law is concerned. He entered the situation with the knowledge that he was armed and the knowledge of the potential for loss of life.

How did he know Trayvon didn't have a weapon? He was needlessly inciting a situation by following Trayvon.

Some of you guys are so street retarded it's comical. If someone is following you at 11:00 at night, and then starts to question you, the last fucking thing you do is have a friendly chat and assume they have good intentions.

This also goes for the whole getting involved in others conflicts thing. That is completely stupid to expect and demand that of bystanders. It just doesn't happen.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

C'mon dude, no one fires warning shots. Take a firearm safety course.

If that is so, then why would he put himself into a situation where the potential for loss of life exists, if it's otherwise avoidable.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

That in a nutshell is what the jury will be asked to answer.

Actually, both his intent and the degree of his intent matter as far as the law is concerned. Second degree is murder that isn't premeditated. The reason we've got murder at all (and not voluntary manslaughter) is because Zimmerman was not considered suitably mentally or emotionally distressed by the situation to merit reducing the charge. As far as I know, not a single jurisdiction requires warning shots.

Eturnal, there's not much support for Zimmerman's actions prior to the shooting being "Harassment." Stalking is the likeliest applicable subcategory, and far more tenuously we've got racial harassment, though simply profiling a guy when you're not even a cop isn't going to be enough. If we assume stalking was occurring, that doesn't constitute a large enough threat to trigger Martin's right to self-defense. Though Florida has no duty to retreat provision and Martin could have stood his ground until Zimmerman actually accosted him, stalking alone is not "imminent injury" so Martin did not yet have a right to non-lethal self-defense.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
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