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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:40 am  
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Blathering Buffoon
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Dotzilla wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre

if i were in charge, i'd legalize it all before i let something like this happen again.


Hunger Games IRL.

:(


s^ | Kay
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:51 am  
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Kayllaira wrote:
Dotzilla wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre

if i were in charge, i'd legalize it all before i let something like this happen again.


Hunger Games IRL.

:(

But even worse. Instead of being one person from each district and every year, it was bus loads of people until the they were bored. Too bad you can't put some gorgeous and handsome actresses and actors in that plot and make a movie out of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:03 am  
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Blathering Buffoon
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Aestu wrote:
Dotzilla wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre
if i were in charge, i'd legalize it all before i let something like this happen again.


Gangsters have been killing each other since before drugs became an issue. The Teamsters and Italian Mafia kill each other over garbage pickup.

I question whether criminals killing each other is really worse than mass apathy and social breakdown due to drug use being socially acceptable.


do you believe there's a difference between one (or 100) gangsters killing each other vs. 100 innocent bystanders? i'd care less about the massive failure of the war on drugs if it was just cartel members killing each other. i'm not so naive to assume this sort of thing doesn't happen all over the world every day, but if there's a tangible solution that involves something as benign as drug use it just seems senseless not to pursue it. what are your thoughts?


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:46 am  
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It's Mexico. The root cause is poverty and misery, not drugs. Before poor and desperate Mexicans discovered drugs were profitable, they were into banditry. And there will always be those who use chaos and violence to build their own base of power at the expense of everyone else.

Focusing on the the violence associated with the "war on drugs" disregards two facts: first, that drugs are illegal for damn good reasons that seem strange to some people only because, with enough time, history has been well enough forgotten that some are prepared to repeat it, and second, that most of the problems driving the violence could be solved by non-violent means that Americans don't have the patience or depth to consider.

Americans buy drugs because they're unhappy with their lives, and the overpowered American currency enables them to enslave foreigners in the service of their addiction. Americans are unhappy because of the lack of purpose and structure in American society, and because the nihilistic pursuit of "efficiency" and "freedom" has eviscerated the American economy and left even those with jobs miserable.

Of course when you try to explain any of what I just said to ordinary Americans, they look at you like you're from planet Mars. The notion that social values and the world at large actually might be a driving force in individual behavior is completely outside the American psyche. Americans never stop to think that inner-city deadenders and the idle rich might be less compelled to turn to drugs if their lives were simply more fulfilling, or the corollary that maybe, just maybe, this isn't the best of all possible worlds.

Americans are by and large too stupid and ignorant to consider that make-work, education, housing, healthcare, police coverage (of non-drug offenses such as theft and hooliganism), and social opportunity might actually make drugs obsolete. Those solutions, again, take patience and wisdom.

Mexicans export drugs because, as I said, the American currency is overpowered, and their own government has little authority and control, partly because of age-old problems that go back to Cortez and partly because of American interference in the service of corporate interests. The basic wants of Mexico - land and liberty - have not changed since the days of Zapata. People can't earn an honest living, and the Mexican government has less power than the mob - removing drugs from the equation won't fix that, it just means that mob violence will go back to being what it was 100 years ago, racketeering, extortion, human trafficking and the like. In fact legalizing drugs would not even remove violence any more than trade in oil and diamonds removes violence from Nigeria.

Mexico's problems are probably even more challenging than those of the US and there is no easy fix. The best thing that can probably be done is to remove the US from the equation by disbanding the CIA, mandating that any products made in Mexico for sale in the US obey American laws, extending the protection of American law to Mexican citizens, and restructuring the American economy to improve the quality of life for our poorest citizens while reducing the power of the currency. Doing so would effectively vacillate the destructive role that American social problems and dollar power wreak on Mexico.

As to legalization, I'll say it again. Drugs are defacto legal in Russia and that has solved no problems there, in fact the widespread use of opiates is a profoundly destructive force. Same with the notorious Russian penchant for alcoholism. Clearly, legalization, alone, does not solve problems, nor is legalizing drugs and alcohol a benign measure for everyone but the user. Life is hard in a country where one can't ignore the social destruction, the chaos, the uncertainty, the culture of incompetence created by widespread use of drugs and alcohol.

If you want another example, look at Germany in the 1920s, when a country in misery sought to escape its problems through what was at the time the newly invented novelty of psychoactive drugs, before laws were conceived banning them.

Ming China. Americans are dismissive of the importance of the history because it's not as cool as reading about American heroes shooting Nazi bad guys. But I firmly believe that the history of Ming China will be THE relevant example for what history is to come in our own lifetimes - how Ming China went from being a proud, sovereign, independent nation to a weak country controlled by outsiders who hid behind the "free market" and selectively applied the laws of China and Europe to their own advantage, how the Chinese had to make the enormously difficult commitment to challenging their culture's own deficiencies and blind spots and open their minds to wider options, and above all else the tremendously destructive impact of legalized drugs on Ming China, something the Chinese have definitely not forgotten given their determined - and highly successful - anti-drug efforts.

And that bullshit on Wikipedia about some unnamed advisor proposing legalization is just that, unsourced bullshit, a political edit. Legalized drugs have been tried and the results were horrible.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:12 pm  
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Blathering Buffoon
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those are interesting points. at this time, though, i don't have the energy to refute any of them except for one. i believe russia's rampant drug use/alcoholism is mostly due to russia being cold, bleak, dark, economically shitty, and boring. take a look at their writing. chekov, nabokov, gogol, turgenev. even before drugs were an issue, they're all just so....morose.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:15 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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My point exactly. Perhaps we should consider that we, too, have too much "bleakness" that drives our problems.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:34 am  
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Feckless Fool
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Got the job.





8)


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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:01 pm  
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Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
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Grats man


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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:49 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Xeoni wrote:
Got the job.

8)



Occupy Wall Street Protestor wrote:
........fuck you 1%, no one can get any jobs ever.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:55 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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holy shit, working hard pays off? even if you smoke/d drugs sometimes?

take that bitter people.


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 Post subject: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:10 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm
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Azelma, you're dumb.


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:34 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma wrote:
Xeoni wrote:
Got the job.

8)


Occupy Wall Street Protestor wrote:
........fuck you 1%, no one can get any jobs ever.


Xeoni wrote:
I went into Harris Teeter today. It's a supermarket...it pays a whopping $8.50, which for my unemployed, inexperienced, uneducated ass, is great.


Clearly, one person, out of many applicants, getting a menial job, that pays less than the poverty level, and offers zero upward mobility or acquired skills, is a triumph for the capitalist system.

That's like saying Communism works because not everyone starved to death.
I mean, is there a difference? Explain it to me, Azelma.

But uh, grats, such as it is.

And Usd you work for the government (actually not even, they pay you, for the prospect of someday working for them), you have no place to talk.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:52 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Azelma, Occupy has capitalists and communists, anarchists and libertarians, and they're all saying the same thing. Don't dumb down occupy because you don't understand it, and if you do understand it, don't straw man like that.


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:06 pm  
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Battletard wrote:
Azelma, Occupy has capitalists and communists, anarchists and libertarians, and they're all saying the same thing. Don't dumb down occupy because you don't understand it, and if you do understand it, don't straw man like that.


Jebus Christos I know - obvious strawman argument is obvious.

One troll at OWS' expense and you all flip shit.


That said, it's not as impossible to find work as some would have you believe, which is my point.

Now, is everyone getting the 50k a year jobs they need to afford their crushing student loan debt? No. And that's a problem. A very real problem OWS is smart to point out.



My buddy came to stay with me for a couple months here in Chicago...and wanted to get a job. He has an Anthropology degree, and had held a few jobs, but nothing too major. One week of pounding the pavement in Chicago and he had 3 job offers to be a server (and making some decent money doing it).

I just don't like when I hear (and I have heard) protestors claim there are simply no jobs. Like anything...painting the issue black and white isn't telling the whole story.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Passing a Drug Test
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:15 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma wrote:
My buddy came to stay with me for a couple months here in Chicago...and wanted to get a job. He has an Anthropology degree, and had held a few jobs, but nothing too major. One week of pounding the pavement in Chicago and he had 3 job offers to be a server (and making some decent money doing it).


Decent money meaning above poverty / enough to make capital progress?

If the guy with an anthro degree is serving tables, what about the people who don't have anthro degrees (and probably aren't as good looking)?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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