Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

You didn't actually answer any of my questions.

For one thing, getting your license replaced, how did you do it? What did you provide to prove you were who you said? Say Jubber was illegitimate, or out of touch with his father, or something. What would he do?

(and yes Jubber I had a similar experience, to provide proof I was a legal resident of MA, they were not content with my RMV ID or my utility bill, they demanded my birth certificate, that said my place of birth was Sacramento, CA. this they did accept as evidence of my state citizenship. gg.)

And the fact remains, if his "house" burned down then by definition he did not live in the projects. (Incidentally, my father did his internship in Harlem, and many years later, kept all important documents in a fireproof safe for this very reason).

Your claims of volunteering with vulnerable populations (I have) are flatly lies because no one who has done so finds their problems "comical" or believes their problems stem from managing the money they simply don't have. Not only because experience makes such views untenable but also because if that is your attitude then you would not last very long in the job.

Proper handling of money. That could certainly apply to most Americans, including you. You say they buy cigs etc - what's the alternative? No one is going to make capital progress on 10k a year - you can't save for college or to buy a house no matter how you live, and expecting people to live like monks with a miserable life devoid of all small joys (like smoking) is ridiculously hypocritical.

What makes you think you've earned the right to not have to exercise such extreme discipline yourself?

As for being taken seriously you are simply sheltered. No one who lives in the kinds of situations Dagery describes (or has experience with them) would agree with your assessment that people do not take poor blacks far less seriously (and people act like white women can do no wrong). (Go watch "Changing Lanes" - excellent portrayal)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_wh ... n_syndrome



I do too - in principle.

But all this BS runs down party lines because the goal is not enhancing security or legitimacy, the goal is to exclude people from voting. Why is it we see these initiatives only in areas with large black/latino populations? Why don't we see Russian or Indian or Asian immigrants held to the same standard? Why don't these proposals ever come up when there are serious allegations of fraud (e.g., Ohio)? And lest we forget - the problem back in 2000 in Florida wasn't fraudulent voting, it was mechanically defective voting (lol chads).

To really address this problem would require a comprehensive national dialogue about how we as a nation choose to address the question of identity and documentation. Currently, I think, we're in kind of a state of denial, we use SSNs for ID despite assurances back in 1935 that the SSN would never be used in that way. And it has come about simply because it's necessary that something fill that role.

Identity is in the same category as SOPA. Rights are being violated and hypocrisy on both sides (freeloaders and box stuffers vs. spooks and fat cats) endures because people can't decide what they want, they can't commit to formalizing what the social contract should be on issues like identity and intellectual property rights.

I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Of course the goal is to exclude people from voting! It's to exclude people who aren't eligible to vote!



So far, these initiatives are aimed at entire states, not specific parts of those states. I don't know what you're trying to say here, but it's not like they passed this in, for example, Michigan, and only enforce it in Detroit.



I haven't heard anyone suggest it's just blacks and Latinos committing vote fraud, but I have heard it suggested repeatedly that blacks and Latinos will be put upon by these sorts of measures. So I think basically the notion that it's just blacks and Latinos is generated by the people most opposed to Voter ID initiatives.



Some people can't accept a loss at the ballot box. In 2000, it was "we lost on a technicality because of hanging chads, we need a better system," and the electronic voting measures get passed. After that, every time someone lost an election and pitched a snit it was "the electronic voting machines were rigged," or in at least one other case, "oh, we have these ballots in the back of our car that we didn't count for some reason."



I think the states do well enough as far as providing a system for IDs, but I agree with a lot of the rest of what you said. The country is divided almost 50/50 on most major issues, and it's hard to reach any kind of consensus without one side or the other throwing a fit like a toddler.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Who?



...which would be...



The fact we are now having this discussion is proof that they do not.




What is your response to the video?

(some permutation of "it's impossible that my world view is fundamentally wrong, so here is why I didn't see what I just saw")

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I watched the video and here's what I got.
1) The programmer allegedly built some prototype software for election rigging but is unaware if it was or wasn't used.
2) The programmer said that he believed the Ohio election was hacked or rigged because the exit polling didn't match up with the actual polling results. (3:08) "Yes, obviously it was. I mean, if you have exit polling data that is significantly off from the vote then it was probably hacked." Later, the programmer said (5:49), "The exit polls should not be significantly different from the vote." Someone asked, "And if they were you would conclude what?" The programmer replied, "I would conclude someone played with the vote." Then the man asked, "And not with the exit polls?" The programmer agreed that the exit polls could have been manipulated, and not the vote.

Anyways, let's look at some more video about possible voter fraud...


PS: I support needing to present an ID to vote.

You are clinically insane. Like, General Jack D. Ripper insane.

This is another case of appeal to ignorance:



The fact that the exit poll may, hypothetically, have been rigged, does not change the fact that there is reason to believe that the digital poll was rigged, nor that there is no reason to believe that the exit poll was rigged.

For your retort to be valid, then you would have to establish that:
1. the reasons to believe the poll was rigged are not valid
2. there is reason to believe the exit poll is rigged

But the guy who programmed the thing getting up there and saying "There's a switch, and I know, because I put it there," isn't enough for you so you invent the kind of stories parents do to explain how Santa gets down the chimney and up again proves you are, in fact, certifiably insane.

That is what insane people do. Insane people cling to their delusional worlds, then invent ever-sprawling webs of denial and bizarrely improbable circumstance to explain away the intrusions of reality.

And that video is idiotic. You don't steal an election by ninjaing one other person's vote, you steal an election by stuffing the ballot box with votes from people who aren't real. Voting in someone else's name doesn't change the final count no matter how many times a party does it because the total number of votes remains the same (one vote per name no matter whose name it is) unless two people try to claim the same name/address in which case the deception would be uncovered.

This is just some kid committing a felony as a prank. And yes, if it were a black kid defrauding a white public official you'd be all "these people are evil etc".

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Wrong. The programmer said that he asked by Rep. Tom Feeney to develop a prototype system which could be used to split a vote 49/51. At 4:40, the programmer said he didn't know why Rep. Tom Feeney wanted this prototype system. At 5:30, the programmer said he had no knowledge if the prototype was further developed or even used in an election.

Now, Aestu... for your assertion of voter fraud to be valid, wouldn't you need to have better testimony? You don't know if that software was used. You don't know if the final version of the software included the methods to throw the election one way of the other. Hell, the prototype could've been used for research purposes so someone else can study the signatures of these types of fraudulent applications to detect them in the future during an audit. You don't know, champ... but, I guess I'm the insane one for jumping to conclusions over some pretty weak testimony.


You're assuming all people are voting. Not everyone votes, and if you vote in place of someone who chooses not to, then you're inflating the number of votes.


People who aren't real... like, dead people?





What felony?

Again, that's an insane argument. Trying to commit fraud in that way, voting in others' name, by betting on the off-chance that thousands of voters won't vote, is like trying to win a battle by hoping all the guns on the other side jam.

Harassing or impersonating individuals does nothing to prove that enough votes are being filed in bad faith to swing the election. It's like shoplifting a candy bar from a store then claiming that being able to do so proves there is a shoplifting epidemic.

Identity theft and fraud are felonies. This is lost on you only because you are insane and think that only other people can do unlawful things.

And your initial argument is again insane. Why build in a cheat switch if they had no intention of using it? And when evidence suggests they did, you think the evidence must be wrong, without any proof to that effect?

Your thought process is that of someone who has psychotic delusions. Believing things that are not true then relying upon bizarrely improbable circumstance to explain away reality.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

So, how can I make sure that neither Romney nor Obama are elected? Is there some scam I can run to this effect?

Please advise.

Man this thread got stupid.

We're examining hands-on testimony and evidence of how the system doesn't work. I don't agree with Eturnal's interpretation of the video or the claims the prankster makes, but he at least demonstrates what is possible.

How is this stupid?



Educate yourself and wait patiently for the sky to fall.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I went over to my friend Julie's house on Sunday. She lives in a one bedroom apartment. Me calling it a house doesn't change where she lives.

I think it is funny when you call people insane. Like laugh out loud, grab my mouth and gasp for air funny. Then I feel bad for laughing because it isn't nice to laugh at the mentally ill.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Callysta of Reverence

Uh, yeah it does. A house is not a project. And a house burning down is way far different than a project burning down. I'm not sure the latter is even possible. They're built mostly of concrete.



Rage on.

(also going to point out, you "laugh" at disadvantaged people but think it's wrong to laugh at me.

you affect that it is easy to laugh at those you easily see as beneath you, but affect that it is difficult to laugh at those you would see as above you. it is your sense of inadequacy speaking. you don't realize it, but that is the reason for this curious inconsistency.)

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Maybe not... but what it does prove is that, back to the original point of the thread, is that people can get ballots and cast votes for people they're not. This is why IDs are pretty important for elections, imo.


We have no evidence that O'Keefe and friends are actually placing votes... all the videos show is that you can assume the identity of a person and receive a ballot for that person (living or dead), because some states don't check ID at the polling locations. Not sure if this is legally 'identity theft' since the identity's were assumed from public documents and there was no 'theft'. Also, not sure it's fraud either since there's no evidence to suggest they're casting ballots.


Like I said - the PROTOTYPE SOFTWARE WHICH MAY, OR MAY NOT, HAVE BEEN USED IN AN ELECTION could've been used for study. Programmers/Networkers will sometimes needed to create a specific software or environment in order to study the effects of other software on the original. Although Miss Yang allegedly said the cheat switch was needed to "Control the vote in South Flordia," the programmer said he had no knowledge if the system was actually used. Without proof, you have nothing.


Oh, so some questionable results in Ohio is evidence that some software in Flordia is the culprit? Where's your proof?
(inb4 this isn't a court of law)

PS: USD IS A DUMB NO U

People "can" do a lot of shit. I'm pretty sure I could shoplift routinely and get away with it. That wouldn't justify pat-downs at every corner store.



If you claim to be someone you are not in an official capacity then you are committing fraud. The fact that he's able to get away with it, or doesn't actually steal anything, doesn't change the fact he's committing a crime by assuming someone else's identity.

Both this and the prior paragraph are examples of delusional psychology. Committing misdeeds to justify delusions, and claiming that said misdeeds are not wrong because of the same delusions they justify.

This is why this sort of thinking is delusional, it's a closed circuit designed to resist intrusions of reality.



Study what?



Exit poll and public statements by the CEOs. That is the proof.



It's the same software.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Wait... so, Yang Enterprises writes some prototype software which is meant to throw elections in South Flordia and that's now, somehow, the same software that was developed from an Ohio-based company called Premier Election Solutions -- the supplier of election software used in Ohio? Also, how is the public statement of an employee, not CEO, of Yang Enterprises proof that the software by another state's company is fraudulent?

I'm trying really hard to keep up with you, but holy shit man -- that's some hardcore mental contortions you're flexing there.