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If only Congress worked like FUBU. At least C-Span would be more interesting.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

So today was quite possibly my unluckiest day ever, at least in terms of interviews; the ACLU was unable to immediately comment, but promised me a statement by Thursday at the latest. Florida Senator Bill Nelson's office refused to provide me with a quote unless I provided them with a large chunk of my story, which is as of right now a work in progress and therefore ineligible for preview. The Department of Justice's voting rights administrator was unavailable and will be so until tomorrow afternoon. Florida Senator Marco Rubio's office promised a response to one of my colleagues in two weeks' time, which is far past even our final deadlines, so I'm not going to even bother calling --- especially considering that I already know his stance, in detail, on the subject at hand. I've also emailed the Republican Party of Florida's media relations office, though I've yet to receive a response, no doubt due to the fact that I'm likely considered to be "part of the liberal media." So fuck me.

Anyway, I'd respond to a handful of the arguments proposed since I first posted the thread, but I've been in a fluorescent-heavy newsroom for the past 14 hours and am absolutely exhausted. If I manage to get any good quotes tomorrow, though, I'll certainly mention my findings here. Until then, I suppose that Aestu can more than cover the punditry aspect of the thread.

Congresswoman Donna Edwards made C-span a little spicy last year. However, I can't say I've seen many other videos from any of the C-span channels.

And Dagery, keep that crimson, liberal chin up.

If no one in politics wants to comment on the issue or deal with it, you know you're doing something important.

And no, that's not sarcasm.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Although I agree it also seems to me that people in politics move VERY slowly, so to expect them to give you a response on anything on short notice(or did you set up these interviews a month ago or something) is poor planning. These people don't say anything of value w/o getting there people to tell them what the effects will be(unless they are retarded) : [

Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
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You know Aestu, I was thinking about our differences in opinion when it comes to politics/politicians. On the surface, you seem to loathe most things about the private sector, while championing the virtues of politics and politicians in general across the board.

As for me, I tend to loathe all politics and politicians, and champion the virtues of the private sector (however few there may be).


Thinking on it...it's not so much the political process I loathe (though the 2 party system is asinine, surely you agree?). It's the type of people who most often become politicians nowadays. I think you're right that politicians do have very difficult jobs, have a lot of education, and face a lot of challenges etc.

I think today's politicians are cut from a very similar cloth as today's fortune 500 CEOs, however.

Think about it. What do you need to be elected? (hint: $$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Who do you need support from? (big time companies and corrupt executives)

What kind of person do you need to be? (someone who looks somewhat good on television, someone who can reach out and touch thousands of Americans by coming across as "the good guy"....that's how you get votes.)


Think of the scandals we've seen in politics. Men like this Anthony Weiner character -- why did he act in such a manner? Could it be that he became a politician, not for mostly unselfish reasons like "the greater good," but for his own personal glory? What about Blagojevich.....the man tried to SELL a Senate seat!

At the same token you could go through and list all the evils of Fortune 500 executives and Wall Street I'm sure, and you'd be exactly right.

My point is, there's a serious ill in this country...and we can argue back and forth on what causes it (capitalism, the private sector, the widening economic gap between rich and poor, the media, etc.)....but to me it's a chicken/egg question. I think what we need to ask is, how can we fix the political process so corruption is rooted out? If we root that out, then maybe government can do what you believe it should and can do.....regulate the private industry and weed out corruption there. Capitalism won't police itself, that much is true...so it's up to the government to police it.

My issue is that I don't think the current government is truly capable. Not that the documents we have and processes we have set up are bad... it's just that there are too many people still out for themselves in government. There are too many loopholes. No one wants to rock the boat because they want to get reelected. We have the media polarizing everything...and the politicians just march to that beat...focused on partisan politics and political gain...not on the people, not on fixing the issues.

Yes, government is great....but only when it's run selflessly. The US Government hasn't been run selflessly since before the Korean War.

A government run by a bunch of ambitionless and uneducated people who live paycheck to paycheck, for some reason, doesn't sound as appealing.

Yeah because that's what I'm suggesting, clearly.


1.) As I said in the other thread...it goes down to motivation. Are you running for office to make the country better, to help the common man, to make the world a better place? Then you can have my vote!

2.) Are you running to make backroom deals with corporations, make money solely for yourself, to be famous and capitalize off of it, etc.? If so, fuck you.


Where do you think many of the very powerful politicians in this country fall in terms of their motivations?


It's why Aestu dislikes police officers in general. Why do most people become police officers? Do they really want to help people...or do they like having a gun and authority? What kind of motivation makes a better police officer and servant of the community?

Motivation is everything.

Basically all politicians have more ambition than you, are better educated than you, and have a less stable income than you.
They also work MUCH harder.

If you believe otherwise, you are willfully ignorant...but of course we know this...



"Motivations" are not always so clear-cut. People change, they lose sight of their ideals. Castro didn't take to the hills because he wanted a presidential palace. But absolutely no one ever ran for office to get rich. With the amount of time, energy, skill and luck it takes to get elected, one could become infinitely wealthier in private industry.

I think most politicians are pretty one-track. Successful politicians want to get elected, because that's what the system is all about, getting elected...Darwinism at its finest...and to do that, you must navigate lobbyists, the media, special interest groups, and the incredibly ignorant American citizenry. All of which brings us here.



This is an accurate perception. And it's why I think part of fixing the police in this country should be civilianizing the police force:

-mandating that they wear blue not black
-use civilian titles instead of military titles (Response Team not Mobile Unit, Constable not Private, Shift Manager not Sergent, Director not Commander)
-do not carry nightsticks or armor unless the mission profile requires it

Changing the character of the force will likewise change the kind of people drawn to it.



I champion the virtues of politicians because like I said, they certainly don't do it for the money. Most politicians are driven either by a desire for power for its own sake or some desire to help their community.

The private sector is out for itself. There's nothing meritable about that. Private industry is a potentially useful means towards an end.



He tried to sell the physical senate seat as a memento. I remain convinced he got taken down for it only because Obama bore some sort of personal grudge.



-All politicians get a fixed PR allowance upon meeting a quorum. They get fixed airtime on networks, gas cards, frequent flier miles, McDonalds Bucks, and a fixed number of advertisements in all publications. They are not allowed to spend their own or others' money towards campaigning.
-Rationalize the legal system and wipe case law.
-Implement a bar association DKP system like I described in other threads.
-Fully fund education, civil amenities, and tenured civil service.

That would solve the problem. It will never happen within the framework of the existing system, though.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Since I agree with you, that means I'm not willfully ignorant, and that means what you know is wrong?

How was I even brought into that comparison I don't even know. Maybe Cally was right about your comprehension. If you believe otherwise, you are willfully ignorant...but of course we know this...


Again, I agree. The 'I judge politicians on their motivation because motivation is everything' is a pretty silly position to take since 'motivation' isn't always known (or isn't honestly expressed), the person could've changed or the motivation's interpretation and implementation is subjective.


Are you trying to tell me you can't have a person who likes both authority and helping people? The two aren't mutually exclusive... and even if someones only motivation to become a police officer is to have authority and/or carry a gun, as long as they don't abuse that authority and do their job well, then the motivation for holding that job is a non-issue.

You can have a person that wants authority and helping people...but I think that's a rare thing indeed. I think the 80/20 rule probably applies. 20% of people want authority to make real change, the other 80% want it just because they like the power.

Generally people who have such a desire for authority and could only turn to low level political offices, or becoming police officers do so because of their own insecurities and inadequacies. They want authority so they can feel superior. Perhaps they do want to help people too...but I find it hard to trust anyone who truly wants authority....especially when it comes to cops. Considering the educational achievements (or lackthereof), general intelligence, backgrounds, etc. of police officers...they aren't people who have a strong desire to be benevolent community leaders. They want to control, humiliate, and dominate people. How do you keep a cop from flipping shit at you? What does the cop want to hear? "Yes sir. No sir. I'm sorry sir. Where should I stand sir?"

You know that's what most cops like to hear. You get in trouble when you deviate from that. If you dare to challenge their authority or humiliate them, you're fucked.


I was an RA in college. There were all kinds of people who wanted to be RAs, I did it because I liked working with residents, and having room and board paid for was an excellent perk. That said, some people wanted to be RAs just so they could get people in trouble for drinking. I remember this one RA I used to do rounds with...he was a fuck. He would crouch down and sniff under doors to see if he smelled alcohol. He took particular joy in hauling students out into the hallway and watching them cry and squirm for fear that they would be kicked out of school.

This is the type of guy who wanted authority. This is the kind of guy who would be drawn to the police.


Again, I'm not ripping on all police officers - as there are some real good one's out there. But on average, it's people who want to control.


Last anecdote. I worked at Wendy's in high school. There was a manager there named Greg. He was a pathetic man...he dropped out of college, and failed to do anything with his life. He had no girlfriend, no wife, no house...all he had was his job as a manager. He was a bully about it. He loved yelling at all the high school kids working at Wendy's. He hated me most of all. I was not going to work at Wendy's the rest of my life...and he knew it, and hated me for it. I remember one time a customer came up and said we were out of napkins...I had a line of about 10 people I was serving at the time...Greg sees this and proceeds to yell at me in front of all the customers. Really tore me down and made me seem like I was incompetent that we ran out of napkins. He then slammed them down next to the register and ordered me to stop the transaction I was working on and go refill the napkins. You know my personality...I took it. I wonder what would have happened had Aestu or you been there.

He liked the authority. He liked the "power"...however insignificant it might be.

Well, Greg's still at Wendy's...probably yelling at some high school student now. It's okay though, because we see how I turned out and how he turned out. We see what happens to those who just want authority anywhere they can get it.

Gee USD, why do you want to go into law enforcement?

Objectively, you are a person of mediocre intelligence, no education, and extremely poor critical thinking skills. You dislike reading and thinking and those who do those kinds of things. Yet you try very hard to uphold a vision of yourself as extremely wise and intelligent and infallible. You have a love of force, and have great difficulty understanding any concept of authority or problem-solving not based on force. You seem to have a strong need for affiliation and automatically being right. You also have a very intense need to be seen as virile and powerful, and there is good reason to believe your sex organs are of below-average proportion and that this affects your self-image.

It is reasonable to believe you want to go into law enforcement because you want a posse, and you want a badge so you can pretend you are always right.



It seems I misunderstood what you were saying, sorry. I didn't quite understand how your initial comment connected to what Azelma said.



I think the problem here is that police officers, who are cogs in the machine, are given way too much discretionary authority they should not have. Politicians, on the other hand, are decision makers for the whole of society. One is a position of projected authority, the other is a position of personal authority.

Cops do not make this distinction and think they have real power when in reality they are merely armed thugs.



I am very professional in professional settings. I had a boss like that once, although I didn't usually work directly with him.

I typically respond to aggression by doing that which is least expected, or otherwise breaking the aggressor's momentum by refusing to play their game. Sometimes I just laugh.

I would probably have said something like, "I can do that now. Do you wish that I leave these customers unattended to do so? Or shall I help these customers first?" then apologize to the customer, saying, "I am very sorry that I am not permitted to help you at this time. Please come again."

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I'm pretty sure Aestu just said that Usdk has a small penis.





In all seriousness though -- why exactly do you want to become a police officer, Usdk? I won't assume anything...I just want to know in your own words.

So aestu can nitpick and shit all over my reasons for my lifes goal?

I'll pm it to you. Not interested in seeing him try to tear down yet another person trying to better themselves when he can't be bothered to.