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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:59 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Agreed with Aestu.

What did huckabee say?


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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:01 pm  
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Deliciously Trashy
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I get what he's trying to say, but you don't fucking say shit like this, especially when the media is already fired up.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... 6008.story

Just fking dumb


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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:05 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Well he's right, but damn man, timing.


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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:10 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
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Aestu wrote:
Tweedledee and Tweedledum. The Dems take the radical feminists, so the GOP takes the radical anti-feminists, then both parties try to foxtail everyone in between into supporting one extremist agenda or the other through demogoguery, which means playing off people's irrational issues.

False elitism is the particular aspect of the GOP platform that appeals to Callysta just as surely as the cult of victimhood appeals to Zaryi. Its not a question of having a brain, its a question of being critical enough to overcome one's capacity to be manipulated through emotional loose ends.

Neither party has answers that would work reasonably well for everyone, and since no one can actually carry on as if half the country doesn't exist, their non-answers dont work for anyone, and will continue to run this country into the ground until things get so bad that a Nazi-like movement will tap into mass desperation to push new ideas (for better or worse).

That's the issues in a nutshell, folks.


Pretty much.


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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am
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Aestu wrote:
Tweedledee and Tweedledum. The Dems take the radical feminists, so the GOP takes the radical anti-feminists, then both parties try to foxtail everyone in between into supporting one extremist agenda or the other through demogoguery, which means playing off people's irrational issues.

False elitism is the particular aspect of the GOP platform that appeals to Callysta just as surely as the cult of victimhood appeals to Zaryi. Its not a question of having a brain, its a question of being critical enough to overcome one's capacity to be manipulated through emotional loose ends.

Neither party has answers that would work reasonably well for everyone, and since no one can actually carry on as if half the country doesn't exist, their non-answers dont work for anyone, and will continue to run this country into the ground until things get so bad that a Nazi-like movement will tap into mass desperation to push new ideas (for better or worse).

That's the issues in a nutshell, folks.


Alright, I think we can all agree on this. Aestu, well done.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:14 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Azelma wrote:
Eturnalshift wrote:
[
At some point in your life, you're going to realize that economic and political policy isn't about helping the individual constituent, but rather society as a whole. Yes, Obama wants to freeze those evil Bush tax cuts (that he blames for all his defecit problems) at their current rates for everyone, except for those making over 200K/250K a year. Those rates would jump to 36 and 39%. Romney, as you pointed out, wants to give millionaires a tax cut. But, it get's better... he's not singling out a specific social class for tax cuts. He wants to reduce the tax rates of ALL income earners by 20%. High income earners would have a 20% reduction in their tax rate, and low income earners would have a 20% reduction in their tax rate. The fact is Romney's plan is designed in a way that let's all income earners keep more of their money, while Obama hopes to suck from the upper-classes to provide more for the lower classes.


Look at it from percentages.

What is 20% of 1,000,000?

What is 20% of 1,000?

Ok, let's look at percentages.

What is 3% of 1,000,000?

What is 0% of 1,000?

Quote:
Do you think everyone will benefit just as much with a unilateral taxcut? I don't think so. My parents got about $600 more back because of the Bush Tax Cuts. That's it. It was gone once we bought some gas, and some food, and went out to a family dinner at Longhorn Steakhouse. Did it really help us that much? How much did it help families making much, much more?

Your parents worked for that money, so I criticize them on how they spent what they earned. One thing you need to remember is that some of the higher income earners in America are small business owners, and those small business owners don't always file their taxes at the corporate level. Instead, they file at the individual level, and those people would be impacted by an increase in tax rates. You're a small business owner. What happens if I take $40, instead of $35, for every $100 your business earns? What if the people/companies who purchase supply and service from you now have less to invest in your company, because the government is taking more?

Edit: Was just thinking about something... if a $600 gain wasn't much for your parents, would they be willing to lose an additional $600? It's only $600, after all.

Quote:
As for disagreeing with Romney, I think the capital gains tax system is broken. And yes, I'm a small business owner who has been a part of asset sales. I think it should be higher and taxed much closer to a regular income tax.

Ok. Elderly and retired people who rely on capital gains are going to be taxed more? What about Romney's plan don't you like? Current capital gains rates will be kept at their current rates, unless you make under $200K/yr, then you won't have a capital gains tax. That's good for anyone interested in investing their money in businesses (which is a good thing) and it helps those who are nearing retirement, or are at retirement, because they'll have more money to live on.

Quote:
I disagree with his plans to keep tax breaks for huge corporations that do business overseas. Small businesses have to pay full taxes on their profits, yet huge corps like GE, BP, etc. get to pay nothing in taxes.

This is one thing I always liked about John Edwards -- give incentive to businesses to grow in America and not overseas. As such, Romney wants to reduce the corporate tax rate to 25%, from the 38% range. This would take our countries corporate tax rate (which is second to Japan for highest, I believe) lower than many, and competitive with most. Wouldn't that be good for businesses to come back home? Also, what don't you like about his territorial tax plan?

Quote:
I disagree with an overwhelming majority of Romney's social views.

K
Quote:
I disagree with Mittens/Paul Ryan's love of the military. We are running in a defecit, and the GOP wants to cut education and healthcare...simply ignoring our bloated military budget. Does this make sense to you?

No, it doesn't.

Adding an additional 1.6T entitlement to the debt via Obamacare doesn't make sense.
Raising taxes on small businesses doesn't make sense.
Having policy which hasn't created job growth to keep pace with people dropping out of the employment market doesn't make sense.
Not having a budget for three years doesn't make sense.
Putting confidence in a man whose budget was unanimously defeated in both the House and the Senate makes no sense.

If your real concern is about the deficit and you're willing to ride this out with Obama, you're a fool. You need to do something to spur faster better growth, promote job creation, while finding ways to cut waste while generating more revenue. I don't see how Obama's plan (which is pretty much the same thing he's been doing in office) is somehow going to make that magically happen when it hasn't already.


Last edited by Eturnalshift on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:15 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:39 pm
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Usdk wrote:
If people voted based on who the VP candidate is, Obama and Mccain would have BOTH lost last time.

I'm pretty sure Palin destroyed McCain's campaign singlehandedly.


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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:54 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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McCain didn't get elected because he didn't give people a compelling reason to vote for him. And the truth is that Obama did benefit enormously from white guilt and the black vote (blacks have the lowest turnout of any political constituency).

The fact that the US has the highest base corporate tax rate doesn't change the fact our corps have some of the lowest tax burdens in the Western world. This is also why our corps have the biggest charitable donations: they can write almost anything and anything off as "charity".

Eight years ago, Blizzard bought the WoW servers. Regardless of where they were made, they can write that purchase off as a capital investment. Accountants book assets at cost. So when Blizzard "donates" its old server blades, which are for all intents and purposes trash, it can write off the full cost. Pay once, write off twice.

That sort of nonsense is why the high corporate tax rate is pure propaganda in a tazx code that overwhelmingly favors the super-rich that own the corps. This truth is borne out by the fact that despite the 1% own almost the entire country and earn their living through capital gains, the majority of federal revenues come from income tax.

As for small and medium sized businesses, they barely exist anymore. Small businesses simply cannot compete with bigger ones due to economy of scale, and most have such narrow profit margins that the tax code is moot. Their biggest assets are usually land and that is taxed by state governments (a major cause of sprawl, which in turn feeds bankruptcy, land bubbles, environmental destruction, disruption of agriculture and oil dependency).

Medium sized businesses have pretty much all been wiped out by corporate raiding. If you want proof look no further than the media and video game industry. Corny anecdotes about all-American small business can-do are no different than Maoist fabulas about miracle peasants.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:06 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 12:38 pm
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Aestu wrote:
Tweedledee and Tweedledum. The Dems take the radical feminists, so the GOP takes the radical anti-feminists, then both parties try to foxtail everyone in between into supporting one extremist agenda or the other through demogoguery, which means playing off people's irrational issues.

False elitism is the particular aspect of the GOP platform that appeals to Callysta just as surely as the cult of victimhood appeals to Zaryi. Its not a question of having a brain, its a question of being critical enough to overcome one's capacity to be manipulated through emotional loose ends.

Neither party has answers that would work reasonably well for everyone, and since no one can actually carry on as if half the country doesn't exist, their non-answers dont work for anyone, and will continue to run this country into the ground until things get so bad that a Nazi-like movement will tap into mass desperation to push new ideas (for better or worse).

That's the issues in a nutshell, folks.


I actually agree with your post except for the personal attack on me. (It betrays your feelings of inadequacy.)

For the most part, I vote for the fiscal conservative, regardless of party. And my shiny elitist degrees say that I can think critically regarding my field of study. (Btw, if I was an elitist, wouldn't that make me a Democrat like Obama and the Kennedys?)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


Callysta of Reverence
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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:18 pm  
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And Romney's not an elitist? rofl.


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:42 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Zaryi wrote:
And Romney's not an elitist? rofl.


No more than any other rich, successful person. I don't get why some people think being successful is so damn bad?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


Callysta of Reverence
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 Post subject: Re: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:05 pm  
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Callysta wrote:
Zaryi wrote:
And Romney's not an elitist? rofl.


No more than any other rich, successful person. I don't get why some people think being successful is so damn bad?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


Wealthier than the past 8 presidents combined, owns several houses and cars, wife claims that 'we were so poor in college we had to sell stock'. Yah, just successful and not elitist. Ntm that success was because his father was a business magnate (and politician) who insured his son would end up successful. It's like the people who love to rave about Bill Gates, but don't realize he dropped out of HARVARD and went to a private school that charges 50k a year for K-12.

And isn't Obama successful then by your terms? What makes him an elitist and Romney successful?


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:23 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Callysta wrote:
I actually agree with your post except for the personal attack on me. (It betrays your feelings of inadequacy.)


My observations about you in this particular context are no more a personal attack than my corresponding observations about Zaryi. The intent is clearly not to attack but to explain by way of reference to your respective values and motivations and how those influence your political choices.

If ideological choices in this country were wholesome and rational, we wouldn't be in half the mess we are. Such is the nature of demagoguery.

Callysta wrote:
For the most part, I vote for the fiscal conservative, regardless of party.


What does "fiscal conservative" really mean? If we are talking about managing the government or the economy according to the rules of business and economics, then shouldn't the goal be not to minimize spending but to maximize national outcomes?

Callysta wrote:
And my shiny elitist degrees say that I can think critically regarding my field of study.


Proves no such thing.

If they did, education wouldn't be in half the mess it is, and people with that same degree wouldn't have wildly diverging opinions about the basics, say things that make no sense all the time, and are frequently un/employed far below their supposed credentials.

Callysta wrote:
(Btw, if I was an elitist, wouldn't that make me a Democrat like Obama and the Kennedys?)


I never said you were an elitist.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:42 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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No one was giving John Kerry shit about being rich. When was the last time we had a "poor" candidate anyway? They're all filthy fucking rich.


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 Post subject: Re: Did another GOP candidate really...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:49 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Usdk wrote:
When was the last time we had a "poor" candidate anyway?


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Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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