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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Dotzilla wrote:
you can't really be as fucking stupid as that. had it occurred to you that it was simply a logistical problem of not being able to put expensive doctors on dangerous submarines?


Doesn't stand up to a moment's thought. How much is the annual operational cost of a submarine? How much is the annual salary of a non-com? How much is the annual salary of a physician? You're talking about a margin of what, 100k, on a vessel that costs probably tens of millions to maintain. "Logistics" don't apply because we're talking about people. A doctor doesn't require more food or resources than a medic.

Cruise liners and Navy cruisers cost less to operate and they have registered physicians. In fact, civilian vessels that have over 12 passengers are required by maritime law to have a physician. So in fact the regulations regarding subs are much more forgiving than those in both the civilian world and the rest of the Navy - why?

Dotzilla wrote:
jubber is correct. all military branches train their medical jobs to a higher level of expertise than their civilian counterparts.


This is false for the same reason it's false for every other branch of government as well, which is that by and large government is the employer of last resort, whether it's DoD or OSHA. Why would any competent doctor or lawyer or engineer want to work for the DoD or EPA or any other alphabet soup government agency when they can earn much more, and have a great deal more professional freedom, in the civilian sector?

This is the ridiculous hypocrisy of people who never cease to claim government can't do anything right suddenly thinking government is awesome when it's government with guns and silly costumes.

Dotzilla wrote:
it's simple if you stopped pretending like you know everything for 10 seconds and asked. it maintains retention. if they can train a combat medic up to the level of PA, without actually giving them the certification (which is what they do), then that medic will be fearful of leaving the military and having their scope of practice and skill set diminished by civilian licensing authorities.


Why would the civilian authorities do that?

Dotzilla wrote:
also, if you knew anything about medicine (which you don't) or even biology (which you don't seem to) you would know that regardless of it's acute care (or emergent, as you put it) or long term care it all boils down to the same basic life-saving element: the acid base balance. a dying human being is a dying human being. the mechanism is important at a certain juncture, but eventually it all becomes one big math problem. is it metabolic alkalosis? no, he's retaining bicarb. has to be respiratory alkalosis. what is causing him to retain his bicarb? oh, he has a flail chest. oh, his tidal volume is lower than average. oh, i see now, someone bumped his vent and it's over-ventilating him.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism

Dotzilla wrote:
either way, i won't dispute there are certain aspects of medicine that i know nothing about, which obviously i wouldn't comment on. but what i do know, i will comment on, which is the path you should stay on as well.


I don't claim to understand the topics you don't either.

Dotzilla wrote:
i also find hilarious how much you're deifying doctors as if they are the end-all, be-all of knowledge. probably because you love your daddy so much.


Quote:
Dear Ethan,

We need to explain to you our current financial situation. I took the job in VT. because it meant more money and had the potential to allow me to stay employed longer.The job has not worked out; my contract is up in Sept.The commissioner doesn't want me in the job. There are no other viable jobs for me in Vt. because it is such a small state. I need a job in CA. because I'm licensed there and I have a house there. There are many opportunities in a big state. Unfortunately, my vision has declined significantly since last summer and this makes finding a job more difficult.

Due to the expenses of paying for 2 college educations, we don't have any money saved. I am dependent on a monthly ppaycheck. I'm very concerned whether I can find a job to stay employed. There are fewer jobs available now and I am old and nearly blind. For these reasons my concern is making payments for things next month and I don't have any extra money. If I don't find a job I may not be able to pay your rent any longer. I hope it doesn't come to that but we must all be prepared. Hopefully, I will find a job working for the state or county in CA. where I will be given the necessary reasonable accommodations.


Quote:
All of your excuses are garbage.

You took the job in Vermont because living in rural Vermont was what your hero Martin Arrowsmith did towards the end of his life. There are other opportunities available to you (such as medical teaching) that you refuse to consider.

You say the commissioner doesn’t want you in the job and you give a bunch of longwinded reasons why this is so. You blame me for what happened at SFSU and UMB but somehow it’s not at all your fault that you couldn’t get along with this job nor your previous job in CA. The fact of the matter is that another man could have held the job you can’t hold and you refuse to accept this or impartially analyze why. The fact of the matter is you are rigid and obnoxious and immature and this prevents you from keeping a job. Nothing to do with “accommodations”.

Your reasons for having no money have nothing to do with college and THE VERY FACT YOU MAKE THIS CLAIM IS PROOF YOU ARE A BAD FATHER. Bernard earned less than you did and he put THREE (3) kids through college AND medical school AND law school and he NEVER groused about having to do so.

When you were my age you had just graduated from med school. Larry was 22ish and still in college. Stephen was about 24 and still working out what he wanted to do with his life. Bernard did not find this strange or unreasonable and he did what he had to do to stay employed, which included humoring the corruption and moral questions inherent in the defense contracting business. He never blamed his sons for costing him money and he never wasted huge sums on extravagance such as $60k on quixotic legal battles and thousands more holding onto garbage in a shed or wasting thousands of dollars on transatlantic flights for fear Squeaky would get lonely etc.

Plain and simple you are a spoiled child who refuses to pay forward what your father did for you. When Bernard and Bernice died you cried and cried and groused for years about how terrible this was because it never occurred to you that it’s entirely natural and proper that parents should die before their son and leave him to carry their legacy forward. You cannot do that because you are a spoiled baby boomer brat.

You wasted hours writing this stupid email because you’re a selfish and vain chickenshit who isn’t man enough to speak honestly (or lie) to his son’s face. You can’t be bothered listening to me on the phone for 30 seconds but you’re willing to waste hours writing this crap because all you care about is yourself.

The capital proof that everything you say is a load of selfish bullshit is that your shortcomings as a father cannot be adequately explained by want of money.

I presented you with two enviably easy options to help secure your son a future: Call up UC and ask them to allow me to study remotely, or underwrite a business loan. Neither option would cost you a penny. The former would require you only spend five minutes on the phone, the latter would require you to sign a piece of paper. As you have said you are old and will probably be dead within the next 10-20 years, so it is logical to have you underwrite the loan so that should things go sour (as is always a possibility) the bulk of the liability would die with you.

When you were “advocating” doing your BS with the VT govt you were more than willing to spend hours on the phone haranguing various people. You were quite confident in your ability to “force” people to do things they had no interest in doing, and indeed your confidence far outstripped what was reasonable or even sane (expecting someone commiting graft to “allow” you to exercise a responsible oversight role). Yet now when you are being asked to convince someone to do something quite a bit more reasonable, all of a sudden you trot out this bullshit that “I can’t force anyone to do anything”. Bottom line is, you don’t give a shit about anyone but yourself because you’re a selfish and spoiled baby boomer.

If your need was really so great and your financial straights really so dire, then you should exercise the available options with all possible zeal instead of in your typical lazy diffident manner. On the phone you said that you would agree to call UC but from tone of voice and manner of speech as well as what I overheard you say to your wife after you got off the phone it is clear you are in your typical lazy and selfish mindset and simply don’t care enough, don’t take me or the gravity of the situation seriously enough, to do what must be done with the appropriate seriousness and diligence. This lack of seriousness, diligence, and responsibility for your son’s needs is why you are a bad father. Bernard would never conduct himself towards his son or his son’s affairs in the lazy and diffident manner you routinely do.
[/quote]

Back-and-forth yesterday. Incidentally, I've decided I'm going to take the loan and go get my masters. Waiting on response from the school.

Dotzilla wrote:
doctors are nothing but people who don't know the answer, but have the ability to find it.


Um... yeah. That's why they're doctors. Same as any expert. They have broad training and knowledge. And you don't.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:19 am  
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Blathering Buffoon
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even though i can't stand your ill-conceived sense of entitlement, naivety, and pure idiocy, i'm still amazed at your ability to drag someone into an argument and make yourself look smarter by simply using more words, quotes, and links. you should be a politician.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:32 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Quote:
make yourself look smarter by simply using more words, quotes, and links


Facts & logic = cheating. You heard it here first!


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:34 pm  
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Links and quotes = Logic. You heard it here first, folks!


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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:11 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
This is false for the same reason it's false for every other branch of government as well, which is that by and large government is the employer of last resort, whether it's DoD or OSHA. Why would any competent doctor or lawyer or engineer want to work for the DoD or EPA or any other alphabet soup government agency when they can earn much more, and have a great deal more professional freedom, in the civilian sector?


For lawyers, job security and accruing a pension starting at 20 years. Regulated work hours. Governmental work is paid less, sure. But there are decent reasons to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:53 pm  
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Aestu wrote:
This is false for the same reason it's false for every other branch of government as well, which is that by and large government is the employer of last resort, whether it's DoD or OSHA. Why would any competent doctor or lawyer or engineer want to work for the DoD or EPA or any other alphabet soup government agency when they can earn much more, and have a great deal more professional freedom, in the civilian sector?


For lawyers, job security and accruing a pension starting at 20 years. Regulated work hours. Governmental work is paid less, sure. But there are decent reasons to do it.


he didn't understand what jubber and i were referring to. we were both specifically referring to the medical jobs offered by the military, not DOD medical jobs, which are a totally different animal. to simplify this, i can give you an example. the army enlists John Smith, assigns him to be a Combat Medic and sends him to Ft Sam Houston to attend the Army Combat Medic School, when he is done with Phase 1, he will leave with an NREMT-B, the lowest national certification for first reponders, and a stepping stone to Paramedic and fire related emergency response. in the civilian world, an EMT-B is essentially worthless, and is licensure that can be obtained through a semester course at a community college or equivalent. then begins Phase 2, the actual combat medic course, which trains a medic up to the level of PA, training them in a variety of skills that a civilian EMT-B would lose his license for performing, such as cricothyrotomies, chest tube insertion, tourniquet based hemorrhage control, advanced dentistry, narcotic administration, needle-chest decompression, intubation, etc. then, they are sent off into the world of deployment where they use and master these skills, far outstripping their civilian licensure. not to mention, as a medic your scope of practice is determined by a doctor's medical direction, letting you do absolutely anything he permits you to. in many cases, a doctor and medics relationship becomes very close and trusting, allowing the medic to perform many procedures they normally wouldn't be allowed to do, such as when i, at the medical direction of my supervising physician over the radio, performed a battlefield thoracotomy and heart massage, a procedure exclusively performed by surgeons.

now, here is John Smith 6 years and 3 deployments later. he has worked as a medic, but at the level of PA (equivalent to a master's degree) for 5 years, earned the trust of his medical director, and performed many different types of procedures that his civilian EMT-B's would have their licenses stripped for doing. now John is tired of the army and wants to get out, so he starts looking at his options. unfortunately, he's just an EMT-B with a skill set that far eclipses his civilian recognized training. so what does he do? he stays in the army so he can continue to do what he loves to do. why get out and go back to school for 8 years just to do what he was already doing?

that's how the military saves money and retains essential personnel. they train their LVN's to work as CCRNs and CRNAs, their medics as PA's and their RNs as doctors. from jubber's perspective, he can say the same thing about hospital corpsman. they are actually licensed as EMT-Bs or perhaps EMT-Ps (if they pursue that on their own) but are some of the smartest, most capable medical professionals in the US medical arsenal.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:17 pm  
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That you actually attribute cost savings as a motive to the military is laughable. Not for nothing does our military have roughly the same personnel headcount as that of Russia or China or Israel or the EU but costs a dozen times more than all of them put together.

If you work for the military you work for the DoD. The various branches of the military are sub-departments of the DoD. They allocate the funds for your paycheck. Contrary to what military trash like to pretend, the military is not a bastion of heroism and awesomeness, it is a department of the government like any other.

Your rambling about how awesome these combat medics are at doing what they do is irrelevant, because what they do is not relevant to the advanced topics you brought up. The tradeoff for the organizational policies you describe is extreme specialization. Emergency care is not comparable to a holistic understanding of medicine. And if that did not matter then the qualification of MD wouldn't be as important as it is.

You are not a doctor. You are a nurse with an attitude problem. Period.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:21 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
That you actually attribute cost savings as a motive to the military is laughable. Not for nothing does our military have roughly the same personnel headcount as that of Russia or China or Israel or the EU but costs a dozen times more than all of them put together.

If you work for the military you work for the DoD. The various branches of the military are sub-departments of the DoD. They allocate the funds for your paycheck. Contrary to what military trash like to pretend, the military is not a bastion of heroism and awesomeness, it is a department of the government like any other.

Your rambling about how awesome these combat medics are at doing what they do is irrelevant, because what they do is not relevant to the topics you brought up. The tradeoff for the organizational policies you describe is extreme specialization. Emergency care is not comparable to a holistic understanding of medicine. And if that did not matter then the qualification of MD wouldn't be as important as it is.

You are not a doctor. You are a nurse with an attitude problem. Period.


oh, you were in the military?


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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:25 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
oh, you were in the military?


Were you ever President?
Were you ever on welfare?
Were you present at Pearl Harbor or the Last Supper or signing of the Declaration of Independence?
Were you ever a Fortune 500 CEO?
Were you ever a developer for a prominent game designer?
Were you ever a college professor?
Are you a doctor?

The frequency that military trash make this silly argument really just demonstrates that they are just a bunch of self-interested, anti-democratic, America-hating traitors who care about nothing and no one so much as their own little base of money, power and prestige. You don't see politicians or salespeople or anyone else trying to justify their views or motives on the absurd basis that only they can be their own judge, because the military is what it is which is an organized hypocrisy driven by lies, propaganda, and shameless self-interest.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:33 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Dotzilla wrote:
oh, you were in the military?


Were you ever President?
Were you ever on welfare?
Were you present at Pearl Harbor or the Last Supper or signing of the Declaration of Independence?
Were you ever a Fortune 500 CEO?
Were you ever a developer for a prominent game designer?
Were you ever a college professor?
Are you a doctor?


and yet, i have commented on none of those things with any amount of presumptuous certainty, as you love to do. and incidentally, working as a doctor for 5 years makes me a doctor. so yes, i am a doctor. if i am to follow your example, simply believing i know something automatically authenticates it.

and for the record, the military and war have shaped humanity much more than your books and rhetoric. your obvious and probably poor conceived grudge soaks and taints your opinion of it, offering very little insight or validity to any of your claims.


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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:39 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
and yet, i have commented on none of those things with any amount of presumptuous certainty, as you love to do. and incidentally, working as a doctor for 5 years makes me a doctor. so yes, i am a doctor. if i am to follow your example, simply believing i know something automatically authenticates it.


Were you O-3? If not, why not?

Dotzilla wrote:
and for the record, the military and war have shaped humanity much more than your books and rhetoric. your obvious and probably poor conceived grudge soaks and taints your opinion of it, offering very little insight or validity to any of your claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

Hmm. In what way? And how do you think that reflects on individual soldiers?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:51 pm  
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O-3 is just a rank. and no, i never made Captain, i got out before the automatic promotion was available. i left as a 1LT, an O-2.

the fact that your immediate go-to to refute my point is anti-intellectualism screams that you are unable to perceive concepts outside your dim horizon.


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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:05 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
O-3 is just a rank. and no, i never made Captain, i got out before the automatic promotion was available. i left as a 1LT, an O-2.

Captain is a rank. O-3 is a paygrade. MDs automatically get O-3 no?

Dotzilla wrote:
the fact that your immediate go-to to refute my point is anti-intellectualism screams that you are unable to perceive concepts outside your dim horizon.


Not quite. Answer my question. In what way have war and militaries shaped humanity? And how do you think that reflects on individual soldiers?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:15 pm  
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He is still mad that a police officer was mean to him.


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 Post subject: Re: You know, I'd hate this bitch even if she wasn't ugly.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:20 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Meowth wrote:
He is still mad that a police officer was mean to him.


Yes, I am. What's your point?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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