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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:55 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Usdk wrote:
Guess that's easier than getting a job, AND you get to protect your right to be a douche.


It's a job in law enforcement.

If the person in question had not bothered me while I was doing my own thing, we would not now be here. I fail to see how minding my own business makes me a douche.

Eturnalshift wrote:
Always the victim. Pathetic.


If you mean to say that I am the victim, then someone else is the aggressor, right?
So then, wouldn't you agree that what I am doing is justified?

Or would you think it better that I be the aggressor? Are you saying I'd be less of a victim if I meekly gave in? Does not fighting back make one less of a victim? I don't get it.

You two think you're pretty good at looking out for yourselves, right? So why does it offend you that someone else doesn't need a badge or physical intimidation to have it in them to stand up for themselves? Is it because you lack the confidence to be assertive without those things?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:03 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I think the story really hinges on how crowded it was or was not.

Aestu, honestly, were they incredibly busy, was it empty, or was it medium-full?


If they were incredibly busy and people were waiting for tables etc...then I think they had a right to ask Aestu to leave if he wasn't eating and just drinking his diet coke (or whatever) with his laptop.

If it was mostly empty, or there were plenty of seats for others...then the manager was just being a dick.



Still, there are businesses that welcome that kind of hanging out (coffee shops, book stores are the two that come to my mind) and businesses that aren't really set up for that. Just because a restaurant has served you food doesn't mean you have the right to stay there as long as you please. However, if you aren't bothering anyone and the restaurant isn't incredibly busy then I think it shouldn't be an issue.



In advance of Aestu's response to my question - I'd imagine this event was a result of many factors:

1. Restaurant was probably medium full, but not so full that people were waiting for tables
2. Manager noticed Aestu on his laptop and was probably semi annoyed, and manager was probably feeling like being a douche
3. I hear Aestu's contention about the laptop chord...and probably it was out of the way...but all you need is one whiny bitch of a customer to complain and the gig is up. I'm just saying, the manager could have heard that. Or maybe one of his other employees complained....you really can't know for sure. If he was already annoyed with Aestu not being a good little customer and leaving after eating...this would be all the motivation he would need to ask Aestu to leave....
4. Manager comes to ask Aestu to leave
5. Aestu responds like Aestu would respond to anything like that by being himself...extremely combative. This makes the situation worse.
6. Cops are called


I feel like this is pretty accurate with how it went down. Aestu is not explicitly in the wrong here (unless he says the place was packed and people couldn't find seats), nor is the manager explicitly wrong, though he was probably being a bit of a douche. Either way, Aestu made things worse by being Aestu, and the manager made things worse by being a big douche...so there you go...the perfect storm of Aestu's arrest.

Glad it got thrown out, though.



I don't know about suing them...seems ridiculous. But I hate lawsuits in general since so many seem frivolous and just cost $$$$ for everyone.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:04 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma has been polishing his crystal ball...


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Aestu wrote:
Azelma has been polishing his crystal ball...


It's quite shiny.

Honestly though, how close am I to the actual situation? In anything I have to assume that you are biased one way, and the manager is biased in another. The truth is generally found in the middle when you combine two stories.



Was the restaurant completely empty, though? Or was it very packed? Were people waiting for tables?

If you say it was empty, I'll believe you, and it sounds like the manager was just being a douche, and you were being combative anyway (coz of his douchiness).

If it was extremely crowded, then you are more in the wrong imo.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:11 pm  
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I would say you are completely accurate in your assessment. Yes, it was very busy, but I made a point of looking around the room and saw some tables (albeit few). Actually, I had a full plate of food and an empty beverage cup next to me; it had been my intent to get up and refill the beverage cup and eat the food, but I was very absorbed in what I was doing.

There are only two tables in the entire establishment within range of an electrical outlet. I have never seen anyone else use either. Therefore, the preventative policy argument carries no water, because the physical layout of the place puts an inherent limit on people doing this kind of thing.

In my dialogue with the manager, I said that I came often for this purpose, it was the appeal of the place. I said, leave me be and I will leave soon enough without dispute (and not return). I am not characteristic of the clientele, and I believe the manager picked me off because I was alone and he (mistakenly) believed I was less likely to take offense than some other people.

And yes I do think his intent was to be a dick. Why else escalate? If he's just doing his job, then logically, he should just move on and try someone else rather push the issue. Doesn't seem to do his job much good to start a fracas. He also could have tried, you know, asking really nicely, stating his motivations, etc. If you go for the dick approach, it's probably because you're more interested in being a dick than accomplishing your apparent goal.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:34 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Aestu wrote:
I would say you are completely accurate in your assessment. Yes, it was very busy, but I made a point of looking around the room and saw some tables (albeit few). Actually, I had a full plate of food and an empty beverage cup next to me; it had been my intent to get up and refill the beverage cup and eat the food, but I was very absorbed in what I was doing.

There are only two tables in the entire establishment within range of an electrical outlet. I have never seen anyone else use either. Therefore, the preventative policy argument carries no water, because the physical layout of the place puts an inherent limit on people doing this kind of thing.


Alright well this makes a lot more sense.

Clearly there were available spots - though few. So while people weren't explicitly waiting for tables, it's reasonable to assume there were slim pickings. Perhaps if a large enough group had come in they would have been screwed. This is a gray area for sure...so I don't think you're in the wrong. You also make a good point with the layout of the restaurant. If you had food still on your plate etc...then that adds more weight to your right to be there.

However, playing devil's advocate:

Aestu wrote:
In my dialogue with the manager, I said that I came often for this purpose, it was the appeal of the place. I said, leave me be and I will leave soon enough without dispute (and not return). I am not characteristic of the clientele, and I believe the manager picked me off because I was alone and he (mistakenly) believed I was less likely to take offense than some other people.

And yes I do think his intent was to be a dick. Why else escalate? If he's just doing his job, then logically, he should just move on and try someone else rather push the issue. Doesn't seem to do his job much good to start a fracas. He also could have tried, you know, asking really nicely, stating his motivations, etc. If you go for the dick approach, it's probably because you're more interested in being a dick than accomplishing your apparent goal/


-I think you're forgetting what made you a very conspicuous target - you were there with a laptop. I think that's why he targeted you, as you were obviously going to be there for a bit (or were planning on it)

We can't know what was going through his head...but I don't think it was so malicious as "what person can a bully out of here to free up some more tables" (though that's what the discussion became)....it probably started with "hmm we're getting pretty crowded and that curly haired boy has been here a while and hasn't touched his food and is fooling around on his laptop...I'm going to ask him to leave...."

-His approach was probably very dickish and you were the exact wrong person to act like that too. Again....perfect storm. I know if I had been him I would have gone up to you and asked nicely and explained (as you suggested)..."excuse me sir, we are getting pretty busy, will you be done soon? etc."



Anyway, I don't think you should sue because I think it's just a case of a manager with a legitimate concern having a very poor delivery and being a douche. You weren't in the wrong, but your combative personality got in the way and got the cops called.

In the future, when faced with such douchery, it's probably best to attempt to de-escalate (apologize, offer to close the laptop and finish your meal, etc.) -- and if he's still a douche just get out of there and voice your displeasure with a letter and a loss of their future business.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:36 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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We might agree that I could have handled it better, and I paid my due for those errors.
It is only fair that he does the same.

A rationalization? Sure. But a good one.

Quote:
-His approach was probably very dickish and you were the exact wrong person to act like that too.


What if more people reacted in the way I do when someone decides to be a dick?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:46 pm  
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French Faggot
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Yuratuhl predicts the future.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:49 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Yuratuhl predicts the future.


/rub rub rub

You mean you predicted from education how the DA would do?
Or do you mean you have some idea how my intentions will play out?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:08 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Manager sucked. I would have torn him down to size.


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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:12 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Fantastique wrote:
Manager sucked. I would have torn him down to size.




Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:41 pm  
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"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:43 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Isn't doing something about what happened, and presumably getting more than even, the opposite of crying about it?

I mean, you take exception to not being able to smoke in public anymore, but I don't see you doing anything about it other than being vaguely disgruntled.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:11 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
You mean you predicted from education how the DA would do?


Yeah, that part.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Aestu Goes On Crime Spree, Gets Slammer, Cops Are Cool
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:16 pm  
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You're like a baby lol


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