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Based on geographical location and these facts, Aestu is right that the demands by the workers are very reasonable.

The only problem, is that reasonable, isn't a right. The company was indeed mismanaged, and the while the union also clearly isn't the reason for the company's troubles, it can partially be blamed for the layoffs.

I know so many people who would LOVE to have just a friggin job for half that pay, in the current state of the global economy ... as posted many a time... and based on the debt of the US Gov.. we can't say that it would have been managed better by a bureau or dept.

so yeah I'm kind of the middle on this one too. Last time I had a twinkie... 5 yearsish?

I tried a Twinkie once. Must have been 15 years ago now. I vaguely recall it was a traumatic experience.

Twinkies aren't vegetarian, so I haven't had one in over a decade.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

It was a fuck up by two opposing groups and many more people suffered for it.

Sounds like guvmint.

You call others stupid but in reality it's comments like this that make you out to be an incredibly stupid person.

Thankfully, you will one day have a union and a badge so you can be another dumbfuck cop pig who wags his ass around because he's too stupid to get by in life any other way.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

You're right, both parties get along great and everyone else is doing fantastic because of it.

Only a stupid person splits the difference rather than try to understand a situation.
Is that kind of superficial thinking going to be the basis of your amazing conflict resolution skills?

Just because there are two parties involved doesn't mean that both were wrong or that the actual problem was as simple as a difference of opinion. It's entirely possible one party was wrong and the other was right, or that what is actually going on is larger than the disagreement itself. Figuring that out necessarily involves examining the situation in depth and necessarily requires a brain bigger than one filled to capacity by a one-line precis.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Well, it is possible that only one party was to blame, but since we know most of the facts I don't think it's unfair to say this is one of those situations where everyone was an idiot. Looking at this situation and trying to assign blame to one group or the other is like locking to angry drunks in an open bar together then trying to decide which of the two of them is more responsible for the ensuing violence and property damage.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Nothing the unions could have done would have prevented the collapse of the company.

The company, causally, collapsed because their products were shit, and hedge funds were determined to run it into the ground.

If the unions made the requested concessions, all that would have meant would be forfeiting their claims against the company's assets in favor of worthless pieces of paper, for the reasons we have already examined. The hedge funds wanted to trade liability for equity. Equity has no value in the event of a bankruptcy. Bankruptcy was inevitable due to the terminal stupidity of management and the intent of the hedge funds to run the company into the ground.

If their products were not shit, if management strived to improve the products, or if the hedge funds tried to run the company as a going concern, Hostess would have survived, even if the unions sat on their thumbs.

To blame the unions is to be willfully ignorant of the facts of the situation. It is that simple.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't think it's fair to say that their products were shit. Twinkies and Wonderbread (which even you admit to eating in your youth) have been staples of the American diet/culture since the middle of the last century. I haven't had a Twinkie in a long time, but the last one I had was almost an exact duplicate of every other Twinkie I had eaten in my life.

Bad management was definitely to blame, but the union going on strike exacerbated the situation. The company couldn't stay afloat with no one pumping the bilges. At best the union going on strike brought about the inevitable conclusion of the company going under sooner than it would have otherwise, at worst the strike ended a company that might have been able to turn things around in the future. Either way, it amounts to the same thing: the hedge fund people are going to get their money by selling off the companies assets, and the people in the union are out of a job. The strike hurt the union members a lot more than it hurt the investors and company executives.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

This is a nonstatement. Company closures always hurt employees more than they hurt investors, who will be entitled to assets via bankruptcy proceedings, and especially more than they hurt executives, who are not affected in the slightest. That there was a strike is irrelevant, since the company was already sinking (and would have sunk even with the massive concessions demanded).

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