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Guns and slavery are a different story.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Yeah, the government that had the guns owned the slaves, and the other government that had MORE guns freed the slaves.

We should get rid of guns...........is your argument?

I explained why they do. Slavery and gun ownership are both excesses of personal power. An unjust claim on another man's liberty or life.



And if the other government had more guns, the slaves wouldn't have been freed.

What does that say about the value of guns in resolving disputes?

(never mind that the Civil War wasn't really about slavery at all)

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

You explained nothing. As you sometimes are wont to do, you imagined a correlation between two entirely unrelated things, justified it in your brain, and thought everyone else had been following along. Unfortunately you were sitting too close to your monitor at the time and the interference kept us from being able to read your thoughts.

The "unchecked power" you keep referring to wasn't an issue, because the very state(s) that were exercising the "democratic mandate" you refer to were allowing slavery. It wasn't until an issue of race--regarding slaves as people instead of a lesser species--surfaced that there was any concern over the practice. It is, especially in this country, an issue so attached to race that the two are inseparable. It's disingenuous of you to argue that you weren't muddling the discussion with race-baiting antics.

The right to keep and bear arms hardly represents an "unchecked power," as guns and/or their sale are regulated at the state and federal level and the failure to responsibly exercise the right leaves an individual open to civil and criminal penalties. Contrary to what you may think, there are times when the individual citizen has the right to hold another against their will, such as when you've apprehended a criminal in the act of committing a crime while awaiting the proper authorities. Even the state lacks the "right" to take a person's life, and can only do so when their life to right becomes forfeit through due process of law, yet if you kill someone while acting in the defense of yourself or another person you're generally well within your rights to have done so. That right to self-defense has recently been referred to in Supreme Court decisions that pulled the rug out from under gun bans in Washington D.C. and Illinois. The right to keep and bear arms is, especially in cases where someone is using their firearm against an armed attacker, not an exercise in the "unchecked power" of the person exercising that so much as it is an exercise in checking the power of the criminal element.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Stop Aestu'ing the toy thread and go back to the cop thread! :p

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Callysta of Reverence

Sure, good idea.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I went to Goodwill to drop off a bunch of donations. The gates were closed so I went in the store to get assistance. While waiting for the guy to help me I looked at the Jean rack next to me. The first one I looked at was a pair of Citizen for Humanity in my size! $228 pair of jeans for $8.

As I was paying for my purchase a purse caught my eye. It was a cute (and authentic) Coach purse in great condition. $10.

Over $400 worth of designer products for $18. Made cleaning out my garage so worth it :p

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Callysta of Reverence