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It's a good thing she hasn't had to do anything more than speak in platitudes to get elected.

Increased productivity has come at the expense of jobs, since that increased productivity is generally achieved by automating processes and reducing the number of workers involved as machines do more of the work. There aren't a lot of jobs that pay minimum wage, and most of those are entry-level, first-job gigs like fast food. Raising the minimum wage sounds good on paper, but generally hurts the people it's meant to help. A lot of companies are already considering shedding (or not hiring) employees to avoid the mandates coming up as the ACA comes into effect, a raise in the minimum wage, at least for those employers who only pay what's mandated, is only going to encourage employers to keep their labor pool small. The real impetus for raising the minimum wage isn't helping the 'working poor' since it really only represents putting a bigger dollar sign on the bottom off the ladder. The reason democrats push it is to pay off their union constituency, because a large number of union contracts tie compensation to the minimum wage, and any increase in the minimum wage is a pay increase for union members.

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Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

And you called Aestu a conspiracy theorist.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Might as well increase the minimum wage. Not like the dollar is worth shit anymore anyway.

Don't know how conservatives sleep at night.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

When the entire party's been hijacked by that 1%, its pretty easy to.

RETIRED.
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Blah blah only rich people are republicans blah blah no democrat ever dicked someone for a buck blah blah my political party actually cares about us blah blah.

Minimum wage goes up, cost of business goes up, prices go up to compensate, minimum wagers don't get pay increased enough to keep up with the inflation of EVERY good and service they have to pay for.

"Solution" causes more problems than it solves. Or hasn't this happened before?

The only thing that will make flipping burgers/bagging groceries pay enough to live off of would be something like ->


Forcing employers to pay into benys and shit at a rate =to man hours worked(all employees) rather than only having to pay out for "full time" employees. It would motivate them to hire more full time people(less management cost). So... then we would have more people working full time BUT would end up with less people working(goodbye teenage summer jobs).


The whole argument seems kinda dumb anyway since most of the dumpy jobs already pay more than the min-wage anyway(though not by much). The problem isn't that highschool kids are being paid 8bucks an hour to flip burgers and bag groceries, its that people with 4 year degrees are being paid 15bucks an hour(and have a 80k in school debt). My dad made more than 15bucks an hour starting out with his 4year Eng degree back in 1978(though he was paid almost double the average starting salary working on oil tankers) and for perspective it only cost him $5800 for a sporty little 2seater(MGB) a quarter of his salary and less then half the average starting engineering salary.

Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch

I saw this video when it first came out...my reaction is the same now as it was then.

Basically...yes, we need to stop the gap from widening. We need to balance out the middle and lower classes, because they keep lagging behind and it's going to kill the economy (it already has been).


However, the problem with these kinds of videos and generally "1%" complaints is that there's a fine line between the politics of equality, and simple jealousy. For every intelligent person who can debate economic distribution, there is an idiot who just complains that a CEO makes over a million a year, while he has student loan debt and works at Chilis.


What is the argument? The rich have too much? Okay. How much should the "fair share" be, then? How much exactly is it "fair" to tax these rich people? How much money would someone need to have (or not have) before it's "fair"?

Livable wages? Sure, everyone should be able to earn those.

But should everyone be able to have enough to buy a new car? Should everyone have enough to be able to buy a nice house in the suburbs? Where do you draw the line for "fair"? When does someone earn "too much" money? How can you set a limit there?

I just think too many people take economic inequality to cry foul and say "it's not fair that so and so has X much money" when that's really not looking at the issue in the right way.....it's also the attitude that makes republicans get angry because it comes across as entitled and whiney.

I'd prefer we look at our tax systems, our financial regulatory systems, our educational systems, etc. -- all things that contribute to the widening economic gap. It's not a simple thing as saying "rich people have way too much money, they should have less"


inb4 everyone misreads what I've written and claims I'm defending the economic gap and the excesses of Wall Street.

http://www.ilsr.org/walmart-could-easily-pay-12-hour/


EDIT:

Probably around the place where the average person can work 40 hours a week, live modestly, and be able to put away some savings. Do remember that these people who are paid fucking peanuts are actively taking your money, especially since they're paid so little that they have to get on government programs just to survive.

If it takes 5 people to run a McDonald's, you can guarantee that there are already 5 people working at McDonald's. Giving these people a livable wage and benefits like health insurance not only costs your pathetic, money-grubbing ass less in the long run, but it also raises the wages of millions and allows much stronger buying power for the consumer.

RETIRED.
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Livable wages would also reduce crime, not that the powers that be have any legitimate interest in reducing crime.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

The problem with that argument is there has always been 1 manager at a McD's who gets payed a "livable wage" and 4 "revolving door" highschool kids who get paid nothing. IF the argument is that there are to many 25year olds working at McD's then I guess we need smarter 25year olds.
This really comes back to increased productivity lowering the amount of skilled workers needed and other countrys making everything(manufacturing) cheaper than we do because of there lower cost of living and our higher eco standards. So there are less train as you go jobs that build into a living wage. Theres one guy working a crane as opposed to 1000 dockworkers lugging shit around.

I also think that if you made McD's pay 20bucks a hour(40k a year) you would have a lot more people saying "I'll just flip burgers for the rest of my life rather than go to collage because its just easier" and then there wouldn't be any jobs for highschool kids(who hires a 16year old when you could hire a 25year old?).


Either way you can't just say "ok flipping burgers and bagging groceries is a $20 an hour career"(your $12 an hour figure doesn't mean shit, you can't live on 24k a year anymore than you can live off 18k). The guy with a training is then going to demand a higher salary and the money pie is only so big.
The only answer I see is redistributing the pie(which you guys were getting at), which I agree with(just not via welfare type money for nothing schemes). The adage "It takes money to make money is true" and a lot of the current issue are due to a large amount of our currency being tied up in a small number of people who don't have to put it back into the economy(thus it doesn't keep earning) and the national debt.

Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch

And here it is...I ask a simple question "what constitutes fair?" and I'm now a "pathetic, money-grubbing ass" despite the fact that I said we need to stop the economic gap from widening and figure out how to raise up the earnings of lower and middle classes

I pay my taxes. I donate to charity. Am I money grubbing if I make more than average? I'm certainly not in the 1%. Politics of envy, right there.



Saying it's okay for some people to have more money than others is not saying that the current economic gap is okay. It's also not saying that McDonald's pays fair wages for the work. You forget that I worked fast food for 4 years...I know first hand how shitty it is and how underpaid the workforce is. So yeah, fuck you.

You clearly demonstrate the politics of envy and how discourse on this subject is so impossible when "I don't like that people make more money than I do" becomes "all rich people are money-grubbing assholes stealing from the poor"

Can't we rationally say "hey, rich people can be rich...but maybe we need to find out ways that everyone else can have a certain standard of living and livable wages? Maybe we need to figure out how to not have the rich continuing to get SO MUCH richer?"



No, that's impossible because everything has to be black and white in the world.

Absurd.

Yeah, I also learned in school that those are the same number.

Azelma, I'm pretty sure that was an untargeted "you" for emphasis and illustration. Quit taking everything so personally you fairy.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

No, because crime makes money for the legal system.

Unskilled labor is just that. If every other tom dick and harry can come in and do X job, why would I pay jane more? There's always more high school kids that need a buck or two that can take their spot.


And really? 22 dollars an hour? If I could make 22 dollars an hour at an unskilled no-brain job, colleges and universities would be fucking empty. And if minimum wage was 22 an hour, teachers and police and firemen would quit in droves to go get a job flipping burgers because 22/hr as a full time job is over 45k a year. Cops and teachers and such only make like 35.

I don't think people would try to better themselves(those few that do) if they could start out at 22. I can understand wanting an increase, but a 13 dollar increase per hour? that's a bit drastic.