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When Aestu most recently spent three days as a belf, during Children's Week, I took the occasion to use my free resets, amongst other thing pugging a heroic ICC-10.

We didn't get past Marrowgar. Yes, double prot pally - I was holy because there weren't any other healers to be found. Neither had raid wall. I told them to go back and respec into it. They refused to do this.

I got spiked twice and died twice. Run went downhill from there.

WotLK tanks...are...so incredibly bad...

My particular pet peeve is pally tanks who don't use Holy Shield - like, at all - cast Exorcism while tanking and don't move when a mob is directly behind them.

There's more than you think and they get way too far in this game.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

sigh... i have to agree with you aestu. I saw a DK tank earlier that made me sigh from his stupidity.... here found his name

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Binnbulle






For those of you who don't know DKs. The ability that makes DW not only viable, but work AT ALL is buried DEEP in frost to the point that you cannot spec into another talent tree very deep if you want to get the DW talent.. If you don't have this talent you are basically fighting with a 1h instead of a 2h without the double strike hit from Threat of Tharassarian

i often choose what spec i did my daily as on my paladin based upon what spec i am current in
so many times i have to suggest to tanks that they actually use holy shield
they claim to have been using it
i remind them that as a healer i have had them targeted the entire time and they have not been using it
they rage and threaten to leave
i tell them that if they leave i will just go prot and we can 4-man this
they leave
i get a tank that is marginally better than the previous

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sunshine.kittens.bubblegum.happythoughts

I outdpsed a Mage the other day.
He called me bad because I pulled too fast.
I pointed out that the healer, boomkin, and warlock kept up with no problem.
He said, "They have spells to give them mana. I don't!"
"You have evocation."
"What's that?"

...Yeah.

I prioritize Holy Wrath and Avenger's shield over Holy Shield. s^

i personally enjoy being unhittable at all times in heroics

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sunshine.kittens.bubblegum.happythoughts

I don't do heroics anymore and if I did do heroics on my pally, I'd zone out the second I hit enter queue so my fingers would just do the normal 969. I'm talking about H ICC25.

Also, you would have to pull like 2 or 3 rooms for the amount of damage to be anywhere close to worrysome, wth r u talkin about rikki.

well, then i was too busy hitting holylightholylightholylight in raids and hitting raid wall when henq told me to to bother with anything else

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sunshine.kittens.bubblegum.happythoughts

<3

All the time on my shaman...

And Takeshi, there's no reason to not prioritize Holy Shield over Avenger's Shield in any situation, and Holy Wrath would be better only very situationally. Generally, in a heroic, I prioritize Holy Shield over my typical 969 rotation because it's going to fall off way before it comes up in the rotation, and there's no way Judgement or Shield Slam are going to be competitive.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yeah, since I was only using that for PvP, it was kind of dumb not to have it

Also, I agree, purple, once the color of the nobility, is definitely the perfect color. Good call.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Ya cuz AS and HW don't do more threat than HS.

Um, they don't.

I have 3792AP base. Sanctuary adds 355 AP. We'll write off Horn of Winter, GotW and BoM because we're talking in the context of a fiveman. We will also write off flat percentage modifiers to all damage because they cancel each other out. So, let's work with a nice, round figure of 4200AP and 1200SP.

Avenger's Shield
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48827

"Hurls a holy shield at the enemy, dealing [X + 0.07 * SPH + 0.07 * AP] to [Y + 0.07 * SPH + 0.07 * AP] Holy damage, Dazing them and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 3 total targets. Lasts 10 sec."

...[1100 + 0.07 * 1200 + 0.07 * 4200] to [1344 + 0.07 * 1200 + 0.07 * 4200] Holy damage...
...[1100 + 84 + 294] to [1344 + 84 + 294] Holy damage...
...1478 - 1722 Holy damage...
Affects 3 total targets.
4434 - 5166 Holy damage


Holy Wrath
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48817
"Sends bolts of holy power in all directions, causing [1050 + 0.07 * SPH + 0.07 * AP] to [1234 + 0.07 * SPH + 0.07 * AP] Holy damage and stunning all Undead and Demon targets within 10 yds for 3 sec."

...[1050 + 0.07 * 1200 + 0.07 * 4200] to [1234 + 0.07 * 1200 + 0.07 * 4200] Holy damage...
...[1050 + 84 + 294] to [1234 + 84 + 294] Holy damage...
1428 to 1612 Holy damage

Holy Shield:
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48952#comments:id=377164
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =6&t=20050

"Increases chance to block by 30% for 10 sec and deals 274 Holy damage for each attack blocked while active. Each block expends a charge. 8 charges."

...deals [274 + 0.09 * 1200 + 0.056 * 4200] Holy damage for each attack blocked...
...deals [274 + 108 + 235] Holy damage for each attack blocked...
...deals [617] Holy damage for each attack blocked...
8 charges.
4936 damage

Avenger's Shield would do roughly 1500 damage to a single target. If you block attacks from that single target more than three times in the 8-10 seconds Holy Shield is up (nine assuming you maintain the rotation perfectly), it will do more damage, besides the damage reduction. If you have about fifty percent pure avoidance and are block capped with it up - which is almost certainly the case - Holy Shield should proc at least twice in that window (off a total of four melee swings, which would mean the mob has roughly a 2.2 swing timer and doesn't parry-haste), unless the mob has a very slow attack speed. If the mob dual-wields, has a faster swing timer, or parry-hastes, all of which are fairly probable, then Holy Shield is even further ahead.

If you are AoE tanking in a heroic you will be tanking way more than three mobs, both Avenger's Shield and Holy Shield will hit their respective caps easily, and the latter will not only do more damage but be a highly significant source of mitigation.

Holy Wrath would be worth prioritizing - like I said - if you're tanking more than three undead mobs, particularly if they're stunnable or casters. Hence "situational". This would definitely be the case in ICC, or PoS/HoR.

In practice the numbers would be a bit larger because of things like Crusade and 1H spec and other flat damage modifiers, but since they are flat they cancel each other out; likewise all the spells have pretty comparable coefficients so gear and buffs are also fairly marginal for the purposes of these calculations.

Thanks for playing.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

So, here are a few of my thoughts on tanks. I have four level 80 tanks and 3 level 80 healers (druid and pally are dual spec healz meatshieldz).

1. I prefer to tank on my pally in heroics. Pulling as many mobs as possible and just grinding them down while the dps is running after me screaming to stop is fun. If I have a tree or a pally with a shitload of mana I just simply tell them to keep up with me.

2. Tanking on my warrior is pure fun. Mostly because of the whole gnome with pigtails attacking shit 5000 times her size is funny as hell to me. Also warriors have got a bit better at AOE threat so its not like the old days of having to wait for a warrior to get sunders on the whole pack.

3. My DK is actually quite fun as well. I am still getting the hang of blood tanking and may go back to frost even though everything is going to change come Cat.

4. I really hate tanking on my druid for the sole reason that I always seem to get at mage/lock/boomkin that decide to AOE before I even target a mob and I spend the whole instance running around taunting shit until I get tired of it and watch them die. Maybe I am just bad at it, not sure, but thats probably it.

My pet peeves as a tank.

1. AOE classes that dont let you hit mobs before they decide to let loose. I usually give these guys two pulls before I watch a mob kill them. This is especially effective on people that like to eat buff food for every pull, it gets expensive. Also effective on clothies who get one shot by heroic mobs.

2. DPS that que as healers and then cant heal. The only exception to this is boomkins healing because other than mana efficiency and a few spells, they are capable of healing heroics. Same goes for a well geared ele shaman. Dont que in ret gear as a healer and expect to heal through a run with 5k mana.

3. Dumb dps, nuff said.

4. Dumb dps that rolls on tank gear. I ran into this on my warrior in reg HoR last night with a warrior from Bleeding Hollow. He never said he was going to roll on an item, was in as fury, was about 5800gs as fury, and got all excited when he won the tanking shield and did not seem to care/understand why I was pissed. I hope he enjoyed tanking the rest of the instance.

5. This one is touchy for me, but people selling heroic que spots. I guess its not a big deal, and is actually fairly enterprising if you are after a little gold, but it just bugs me and I am nto sure why.

posting from work so this probably looses direction somewhere in the middle since I am typing in between installing software. Later all.

TLDR- I have four tanks, some are fun, and some people piss me off.

9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.

I feel the exact same way. I don't know why...but that bothers me.
I think it is more the way they advertise like "I am doing you this HUGE favor". Whenever I go to do the daily I usually just go tank spec in dps gear just to have some fun with the dbw. Being a tank 100% of the time, it is kinda cool to turn into different things, though I am sure most take it for granted now a days. But whenever I go for the daily I always queue alone. I really like playing with random people from our, and other, servers. Chance to meet new people, different guilds, different attitudes. I find it refreshing.

As for the tank discussion, only ever tanked on the warrior so I can't comment, but I love it. It keeps me busy and I set goals for myself all the time to try and get better (ie. my goal of 100% HS conversion)