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same thing that happened to christianity at the end of the middle ages.

someone will start painting naked ladies, and they'll eventually get over it.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

Read "The Kite Runner" and "A Thousand Splendid Suns" that shit is deep.

azelma you live in chicago? im from naperville

It will continue as it and all other religions have. The pendulum will continue to swing between extremists and those who live in the real world.

Fundamentalist Islam is not a viable political or social or religious dogma. It contains the seeds of its own undoing as it can only wind down into apostasy and secularism.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yeah. Yeah. This exactly. From what I hear, it's already happening in Iran.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Well I could certainly be wrong about changes in US foreign policy being effective; we don't really have any way to answer that question without trying it. However, it is undeniable that US and Israeli policy have fanned the flames in the Islamic world. The great majority of Muslims are ordinary people who happen to have been born into a particular religion. While that religion may or may not have more violent attributes than others, most people are fundamentally non-violent. However, they can be incited to violence and hatred, and American and Israeli activities provide plenty of material to those who are promoting violence against the West. I don't think you would argue that most Christians are inherently violent, but the Crusades and the Inquisition are evidence that they can be extremely violent at times.

Nice, I have a cousin who lives in naperville...very nice town. I live in the city...Wrigleyville-ish to be exact. I love it!



Also, i'd like to point out that Rima Fakih, current Miss USA is Muslim, and she shows a lot of skin, and I am at half mast just thinking about her. Yeah, so not all Muslim's are bad because...damn.

Hey Eturnal, how do you feel about our domestic terrorists that firebomb abortion clinics and murder their doctors? I mean, since these people subscribe to the same political beliefs (in some ways) and are Christian, couldn't I say as an outsider that all conservatives and all Christians are violent people by citing these examples?

RETIRED.
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I'm not convinced altering our policy towards the worlds is going to change Islam's perception on us. Considering we're a multi-religious country, yet largely judeo-Christian, I think we'll always be under fire from Islam.

The Qu'ran explicitly states, in Sura Al-Ma'ida (5.51), "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." This isn't the only place where the Koran states that Islam should not be peaceful with the Jews/Christians, either. Additionally, these unjust people, or otherwise known as Infidels, or unbelievers, should be dealt with accordingly, as detailed in Surat Muhammed (47.7), "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish."

I guess atheists and agnostics are the only peaceful ones, who knew.

Not after this thread, I need to go bomb something.

You don't kill for something you don't believe in.

the particularly ironic thing is that the islamic dive into the dark ages has been really swift and recent. the fall of the ottoman empire wasn't that long ago historically (roughly analogous to the fall of the roman empire for the west), and up until halfway through the 20th century fundamentalist islam was not really prevalent.

while we were going through our dark ages, the muslim world was the happening place for art and science.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

I'm actually looking at the religious texts of Islam and Christianity. The Qu'ran doesn't take nicely to the Jews and Christians and, in fact, helps motivate their actions; ie. beheadings. Christianity, at worst, details stoning people for their crimes (of the day), yet doesn't declare that Christians actually do harm to others of other religions.

To answer your question: That conclusion can be drawn; however, based on the fundamental core beliefs of Christianity, those actions aren't taken in accordance to the Bible's teachings. The Bible, to my knowledge, doesn't tell a Christian to go harm someone who doesn't believe what they believe. The Qu'ran does. If an individual claiming to be a devout Christian commits a crime is it in the name of Jesus or God? If the crime and the way it is committed is outlined in the Bible then, sure, that argument could easily be made. Now, when an Islamic extremist gets their hands on an unbeliever and decides to cut off their head, as stated in their religious text, then it's easier to draw the parallel between their actions and the teachings of their doctrine.

Personally, I don't care for religions. Of the two, Christianity is certainly the lesser of two evils.

I'm a militant atheist in that I believe that faith is poisonous to social morality. I believe it establishes a false good, and in doing so, a moral shelter for evil - otherwise evil people who can be said to be good because they have faith. Overlooked, but even more important, is that I believe accepting the validity of a world view based on faith undermines people's ability to see the world rationally. I believe that religion should be abolished and replaced with a new form of morality - not merely philosophy, but based around symbolism, nationalism, and a Nietzsche-like cult of man. For example, we should have statues of great dead people styled as gods and coronated with wreaths.

I believe the most effective way to crush religion is to force it out of the world, not by persecuting individual religious people. There should be prohibitive zoning ordinances on churches, requiring them to meet the same sort of restrictions placed on brothels and casinos; they should not only lose their tax-exempt status, but also should have to give 90% of their income to the government; and they should be banned from any form of proselytizing or solicitation. Meanwhile secular alternatives to religion - like what I described above - should be promoted.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.