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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:50 pm  
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Eturnalshift wrote:
I'm not convinced altering our policy towards the worlds is going to change Islam's perception on us. Considering we're a multi-religious country, yet largely judeo-Christian, I think we'll always be under fire from Islam.

The Qu'ran explicitly states, in Sura Al-Ma'ida (5.51), "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." This isn't the only place where the Koran states that Islam should not be peaceful with the Jews/Christians, either. Additionally, these unjust people, or otherwise known as Infidels, or unbelievers, should be dealt with accordingly, as detailed in Surat Muhammed (47.7), "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish."


Because the Bible is totally non-violent, right?

Quote:
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Deuteronomy 7

Quote:
28 Listen to the fugitives and refugees from Babylon
declaring in Zion
how the LORD our God has taken vengeance,
vengeance for his temple.

29 "Summon archers against Babylon,
all those who draw the bow.
Encamp all around her;
let no one escape.
Repay her for her deeds;
do to her as she has done.
For she has defied the LORD,
the Holy One of Israel.

Jeremiah 50

I could go on.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:55 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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"The Old Testament God is a bit of a prick."

- Lewis Black


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:16 pm  
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I have no respect for any religion because I don't understand the desire to willingly subordinate yourself to an invisible (nonexistent) watcher who in the past has given very bad advice to other deluded fruitcakes.

That said, it's easy to find fault with any religion as the basis for terrible violence. Islam is getting more attention because it's easier to spy on people, but just look at the Jewish revolts under Roman rule (which never went well for the Jews of course, but it was violence all the same), the Crusades (technically political, but the average foot soldier thought he was fighting for god and that's what matters), the French wars of religion which were some of the worst civil wars yet, the Inquisition, the Reconquista (which was admittedly in response to Muslim expansionism), the dozens of expellings of Jews from whichever European kingdom, etc.

Thanks god, you're doing the world a favor. Go fuck yourself.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:46 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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clearly the universe exists by accident.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:49 pm  
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Kumi's Sex Slave
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Maybe the reapers allowed us to live long enough so they could field an army of Human-Reapers and Collector's and Geth to do battle with us.




Also this feels relevant: http://kotaku.com/5541911/scientists-im ... -call-next


Decimo - Druid
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:41 pm  
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Jewish revolts under Roman rule (which never went well for the Jews of course


Funny story, this was the topic of my term paper.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:52 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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Aestu wrote:
Yuratuhl wrote:
Jewish revolts under Roman rule (which never went well for the Jews of course


Funny story, this was the topic of my term paper.


No pies thrown in faces, this story wasn't funny at all!

PST Laelia for suggestions and supply of pie for the next time you try.

Rhyme honestly wasn't intended there.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:06 pm  
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i really didn't want this thread to travel in this trajectory, but you have forced my hand.

Usdk wrote:
clearly the universe exists by accident.


the universe exists because it exists. "reason" exists because the egotism of humanity can't comprehend that it is merely a minute byproduct of an unreasonable anomaly.

also, even some of the wilder big bang theories, such as the sudden reversal of positive particles causing supermassive singularities to erupt through metaphysical fabrics that we can't, and will never be able to know, are more viable to me than the whole "man in the sky" theory.

smart people are on both sides of the fence working their hardest to make sense out of all this. i myself have been on both sides of the fence, and frankly, as far as i'm concerned, science provided me with much more than religion has.

tldr; i'm a former astrophysics major dropout and i'll be happy to scrap with you on this debate, although from years of experience i've found it never goes anywhere and you eventually lose friends.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:39 pm  
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quick glancing over this thread has led to these points:

the universe is a construct. it's designed similar to your neural system.

portions outside of genesis are suspect. if you are reading texts that involve "Day" or "Year", it's valid. If it says "night" or "months", it's suspect. There's a saying "it's only with your heart you can see rightly".

Genesis, part of the Torah, is mathematically capable of being mapped in three dimensional space as (wait for it) a torus. Genesis also contains pi.

Faith and religion are two different things. You all have your own paths to walk to discover that. Religion today is a means of distorting the word. What, you thought the current pope looked like palpatine by coincidence?


PS: A true neighbor shows mercy and compassion. There is nothing merciful about threatening another's life.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:31 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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Quote:
Faith and religion are two different things.


I don't know much about history of the east or of the religions from there.

But it was occurring to me the other day, maybe this stems from ignorance though, that theism and religion are two nonvolatile things that create explosions when mixed.

I mean:

Many in my family are theistic. They believe there is a divine power of some kind. But they aren't religious. They are all reasonable and have tolerance. I meet a lot of people that are the same way.

I can't recall ever hearing about Buddhists partaking in hateful activities, or those of Confucianism burning churches (as an example). These are also religions that do not promote the idea of a higher power.

TL: DR
It seems to me that religion is fine, theism is fine, but theistic religion can be very bad.

Just a thought.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:07 pm  
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Weena wrote:
Quote:
Faith and religion are two different things.


I don't know much about history of the east or of the religions from there.

But it was occurring to me the other day, maybe this stems from ignorance though, that theism and religion are two nonvolatile things that create explosions when mixed.

I mean:

Many in my family are theistic. They believe there is a divine power of some kind. But they aren't religious. They are all reasonable and have tolerance. I meet a lot of people that are the same way.

I can't recall ever hearing about Buddhists partaking in hateful activities, or those of Confucianism burning churches (as an example). These are also religions that do not promote the idea of a higher power.

TL: DR
It seems to me that religion is fine, theism is fine, but theistic religion can be very bad.

Just a thought.


Buddhism has its own issues. You can't classify it under a religion in the traditional sense of other religions, mainly because the hierarchy just really isn't there, unless you actually believe that the Dalai Lama is really something important (it isn't). Even then, that's just a sect.

Religion, in organized form greater than any small community, starts to become influenced by the desire to unite on various causes. It is then that a small vocal minority can then seize power. All this desire to help everyone around the world, yet such little desire to start in the home. Funny.

I stray from the point at hand. To classify religion on its own merits without theism is to lower it to nothing more than a political party, just in another field. Unless there is acknowledgement and worship (note: that word is improperly used everywhere) of a deity, it's not truly religion.


Religion vs Faith: A person amongst the sheep is safe. A person amongst the lions is in danger. One of those requires more faith, more devotion, and the eventual fulfillment of the prodigal son.


as a long PS:

It's said that the little children go to heaven, but it also means those who are childlike as well. (note: this doesn't mean immature, it means playground rules. bullies suck, playing together is fun, and if a bully were to apologize and mean it, you would play with them too.)

Until the age of 8, you are considered innocent. It is at this point in your life that things remain wonderful in this world, where you're (generally) safe, full of awe, and still connected. This is why the Catholic church doctrine specifies that no one under 8 is to be indoctrinated. People tend to forget these things.

Those who are fresh to this world still feel a connection to a higher power. Some lose it. Some rediscover it. It's your path.

Choose wisely.


PS: choose quickly. door's closing on 5/22.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:01 pm  
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decimo wrote:
Maybe the reapers allowed us to live long enough so they could field an army of Human-Reapers and Collector's and Geth to do battle with us.




Also this feels relevant: http://kotaku.com/5541911/scientists-im ... -call-next


I fuckin love u


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:18 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
I'm a militant atheist in that I believe that faith is poisonous to social morality. I believe it establishes a false good, and in doing so, a moral shelter for evil - otherwise evil people who can be said to be good because they have faith. Overlooked, but even more important, is that I believe accepting the validity of a world view based on faith undermines people's ability to see the world rationally. I believe that religion should be abolished and replaced with a new form of morality - not merely philosophy, but based around symbolism, nationalism, and a Nietzsche-like cult of man. For example, we should have statues of great dead people styled as gods and coronated with wreaths.

I believe the most effective way to crush religion is to force it out of the world, not by persecuting individual religious people. There should be prohibitive zoning ordinances on churches, requiring them to meet the same sort of restrictions placed on brothels and casinos; they should not only lose their tax-exempt status, but also should have to give 90% of their income to the government; and they should be vezir'd from any form of proselytizing or solicitation. Meanwhile secular alternatives to religion - like what I described above - should be promoted.



By accepting a tax exemption status, a local church is bound by the laws of the beast government.

the beast government is controlled by the mystery religion.

et tu, babylon?


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:26 am  
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Tehra wrote:
By accepting a tax exemption status, a local church is bound by the laws of the beast government.?


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. The only true Christian died on the cross. The evil hypocrisy inherent in religion is what drives me to believe it should be stamped out.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:35 am  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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Aestu, you should do this, except with atheism.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3f4z7BNnqs[/youtube]


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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