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So what you're saying is that either I can prove to you that God exists or you can go out the door as a nonbeliever and get burned?

That's not too dissimilar from religion lol.

I'm saying I'm not going to take something that I find to be so silly as absolute fact without some sort of concrete proof, which you're unable to give me.

RETIRED.
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And yet you also can't prove God DOESNT exist.

Well I haven't spent the past 2000 years trying to convince people that my beliefs are absolutely correct and you'll burn in some imaginary Kingsford charcoal grill if you don't agree with me.

RETIRED.
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Reading your posts, I find it difficult to believe that you respect the people you describe as silly and delusional. I wonder if your grandparents are still living if you tell them how ignorant they are. You have never seen God, spoken to God, nor received a message from God; neither have I. But plenty of outwardly sane people say they have/do. Who am I to say they have not? Who are you to say they do not? The testimony of just two eyewitnesses in a court can get a man sentenced to death. Even allowing for the argument that a few billion people are all delusional; they believe it, so this is truth to them. It doesn't matter what we believe, or have/have not experienced. I simply can't dismiss the possibility that something could happen outside of my experience to someone else which could shape their truth into something different from mine. That's not intellectual cowardice. It's also not intellectual closemindedness.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

that's got nothing to do with what we were talking about though.


you can't disprove it anymore than they can prove it.

I'd be willing to say that this closedmindedness is a direct result of religion, mainly because you're taught that your views are right and everyone else is going to hell.

I mean, look at the religious right in this country trying to force their views on everyone else. Granted, there are millions of "religious" people (I'd rather call them agnostics, but they still go to church every once in a while) that are rather open-minded, but living with religion deeply rooted in your noggin doesn't open you up to a lot of things.

RETIRED.
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All that we've been doing is going in a circle about proof, which we both agree with that neither side has any.

However, multiple faiths (Christianity being one of them) are aggressively encouraged to go out and "save" people by getting them to subscribe to the "truth". If you're going to try and convert people, some sort of concrete proof of a benevolent being is pretty mandatory (or you can just do it at the end of sword, which every religion has done for centuries).

I'm not trying to convince you that there's no god, I'm just stating my beliefs and my views on people that believe that there is a god.

RETIRED.
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closedmindedness is not a result of religion, directly or otherwise.

you don't have to believe in anything to have your head up your ass.

I know plenty of people, religious or otherwise, who are closedminded about all kinds of shit, not just religion.

My belief is that those who honestly search for, and arrive at, a personal truth and spirituality are all right. Buddhists? Yep. Muslims? You bet. Christians? Check. Hindus and Jews and Mormons, oh my. And, if you've given yourself a chance to open up to these things, and found that none of them sway you, then believing in none of them is fine, and a kind of spirituality, imo. Closedmindedness is dismissing something as untrue because it differs from what you think, especially when you don't even know what it is, for certain. The biggest problem with most religions are the loud-mouths, the violent and, yes, the closedminded among them who get the most press, and make people hate them. But loud-mouths, violence and closedmindedness aren't restricted to the religious. I kind of follow the thinking of Gandhi on this subject:

“For me, the different religions
are beautiful flowers from the same garden,
or they are branches of the same majestic tree.
Therefore, they are equally true,
though being received and interpreted
through human instruments equally imperfect.”

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

Is there a God? You bet. The thing is I don't think any one religion is right. The way i see it there is one god. All the different religions are gods way of testing people. Can all of these different religions exist peacefully even though they are told very different beliefs? That is the test. Yes, we are an ant farm and just as significant on the cosmic scale. Which isn't very.

sentient beings exist in the galaxy but have no sense of self. they want nor need purpose, similar to every other animal. one day, through a scientific experiment they inadvertently create a synthetic self-awareness that automatically attaches itself to human beings upon formation of a zygote. they have their own word for this self-awareness but for the sake of discussion, we'll call it a soul. they realize that no matter what happens to the physical form of the body, their soul can be tracked with scientific instruments and can be "read" to show how ethically advanced they are. one day, they notice that the souls have gone outside trackable limits. they have entered a realm upon which no instruments can successfully mark the distance they have traveled. these beings are so technologically advanced that they can track single atomic particles moving at light speed to the end of the universe, but cannot track these souls. they simply disappear. after much debate, they assume the souls were too ethically advanced to exist in this universe and have Gone On, to be absorbed into the Godhead. now, these beings have charged themselves with the duty to travel to every single planet with sentient life and install these "soul-creating" machines deep within the core to provide salvation for every sentient being in the universe. as a new sentient race shows promise as being the most ethically advanced, the technology and knowledge is passed onto them to have them take up the divine work.

now, this is an ACTUAL religion, and you can honestly say that you would be willing to accept THIS over the simple explanation that there is no god? fear of death and oblivion is understandable, having faith is understandable, but surely you must see how ridiculous this all sounds.

There isn't any conflict between respecting someone as an individual and not respecting their religion. I come from a very large extended family that spans a wide range of theological and ideological thought, and yet we get along very well. We simply don't discuss religion or politics at family gatherings because we know so many of us disagree about any given point, and it works.

As for thinking God or gods are speaking to you, hearing voices is usually considered a sign of a mental disorder. I'm not sure why attributing these voices to a deity makes them important. People often think they see and hear things that aren't true, which is why eyewitness testimony is almost entirely unreliable. Our brains just aren't good at storing accurate memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pxRXP3w-sQ



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Roxanne

i actually find that incredibly insulting.

jk i didnt watch it

now i watched it and it says, "people only believe in god in times of desperation"