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I've decided in light of all the fuckedupness, I'm waiving my right to vote..I'll just give it to teh women...o wait.


I'm pretty jaded with politics, democracy, corruption and the world in general.

In order to be a viable contender in the U.S Political Scene, you need to have a shit ton of money. By the time you accrue said money, you're gonna owe a shit ton of favors.

...So yeah.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

1) There is already an application process which doesn't prohibit the types of individuals we bring into our country, nor does it deny people based on education. I've been told it's based on a simple background check, some fee, and minimal testing on culture. Still, it permits any number of persons to come into the country. As far as Refuge Status - No thanks. Let's get rid of that, too.

2) I don't understand why you take issue with the North and South Korean border. You do realize we have a fence/wall between the USA and Mexico, right? Sadly, it's in disrepair and highly inadequate. Reinforcing the fence (which is used to keep people in, or out, of a certain area) doesn't seem like too much to ask. Having the National Guard actually GUARD our borders doesn't seem out of the question, either.

3) Turning neighbor against neighbor? Have you not seen the news over the last decade? This immigration issue has been a hot topic for sometime and, clearly, the nation is heavily divided on the issue. Despite personal opinions, it is illegal for a person to be in this country illegally. Consider this: If you witness a person stealing from a neighbor would you alert the authorities? If you're a decent neighbor, you would. Now, if there is a house in your neighborhood that has several Nigerian families living in one building, not maintaining their yard/house (which hurts your property value), can barely speak English, yet still sends their children to public schools (a service you pay for with your tax dollars)... isn't that essentially stealing?

4) My mistake. English is the National Language (loosely, through no law or declaration), yet not the Official Language. If English was the Official Language, recognized at the federal level, then governments and public services would be able to issue forms in one language and not need provide translators. (Helps force immigrants into learning English.)

5) What do we already do?

I live this way. The Constitution was written in ENGLISH and not any other language, therefore it was made the official language, with out saying

There are lots of things that are illegal that don't get people as upset as illegal immigration. Speeding and possession of marijuana are both illegal, but where are the calls for draconian crackdowns on speeders and stoners? If you have a problem with immigration, be honest about why you think illegal immigrants are such a threat. If the only issue is provision of public services to people who don't pay taxes, wouldn't it make more sense to make sure immigrants pay taxes rather than spending billions on fences that don't work?

If you're caught speeding or in possession of weed you face the penalties of fines and/or jail time. The same doesn't happen for illegal immigration and, in fact, many cities will turn a blind eye to the issue, or even prohibit law enforcement officers from asking about the status of a person. Still, in terms of speeding, many states have started cracking down on various crimes they feel to be a problem; Virginia, for instance, has been very tough on speeding up and down the I95 corridor, using patrols, unmarked cars, aircraft and speed cameras to ticket individuals. Arizona is dealing with their very real problem in a way Arizona feels fit since the Federal government is, again, asleep at the wheel.

How often do people actually get detained for speeding or possession of pot? Both are considerably easier to detect than immigration status, but in the majority of cases police turn a blind eye as long as there's no threat to others. If you're so opposed to immigration on the grounds that it's illegal, do you similarly support zero tolerance toward speeding and possession? How fast do you drive to work?

Article IV, Section IV of the Constitution states, "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion..." What illegal immigrants are doing is, in fact, an invasion of the country... trespassing... encroaching... etc. It's all the same. The federal government has a responsibility to protect the states from this act.

Go speed through virginia, or through south carolina from spring to early fall.

People coming in peacefully looking for jobs is not an invasion, unless you want to stretch the meaning of the word so far that the government would also be required to prevent tourists from coming to spend time on the beaches in Florida.



I've never been to SC, but I have been in Virginia and did drive over the speed limit. Nothing happened.

So, your argument is to ignore illegal immigration laws since crimes like speeding and possession are easier to detect, yet often aren't charged?

I'm curious to know - do you even think there is a problem with illegal immigration, Laelia?

I'm not stretching the word at all. You're being ignorant to the definition and not taking it as seriously as it should be. You're saying illegal immigrants are peacefully looking for jobs? What about the ones that formed the MS13 in Northern Virginia? What about the ones who are locked in prison for committing crimes in Arizona? What about those who cross our border just to run drugs? There is a lot wrong with this and the best you can do is say I'm stretching the definition of invasion? I don't give a damn if some international comes to this country legally, through the process of entering this country, for a vacation in Flordia. If they overstay, get a job and decide to make a life here, or if they overstay their Visa, then I have an issue with it, since it is circumventing the process that we have in place, side-stepping the law and jumping line against all those who are coming here legally.

Invasion, trespassing, encroaching, gleefully prancing across the border, etc. It's all the same and it's all illegal according to US Law and the Federal Government has a responsibility to guard against it according to the US Constitution.

You know this is flawed logic. The rapist can't cry about his sentence because the murderer was able to cut a deal. He's got to live with the consequences of the crime he committed. So, let's focus on the topic here, which is ILLEGAL immigration, which is a crime. Most countries have laws against people entering without permission. When an immigrant sneaks into the ANY country, through their actions they are not only demonstrating that they know they are committing a crime, but that their personal needs/wants are more important than obeying the laws of the country they have chosen. And, by extension, they are expressing that they will disregard any other laws that conflict with their personal needs. They become a burden on the areas where they settle by consuming local services and resources that were not budgeted to cover a population of criminals hiding behind the scenes. This is no way to ingratiate yourself to a population. A citizen who pays county taxes is not going to be very happy when they arrive at the county hospital with an ill child, and they have to wait for hours because the hospital is overwhelmed with illegal immigrants. The only way to curb illegal immigration is to remove their incentives for invading.

1. Make it illegal to employ illegal immigrants, either directly, or through contractors with fines that hurt.
2. Make it illegal to house illegal immigrants with fines that hurt.
3. Make social services unavailable to illegal immigrants, except for life-saving care.
4. Require law enforcement, social services and government officials to report illegal immigrants to immigration officials.
5. Tax money sent out of the country unless proper paperwork has been filed for exemption, such as companies who have operations out of country.
6. Give immigrants a grace period to return to their native countries, after which, illegal immigrants caught in country would be deported and banned from re-admission for a set time period.

I also think, in the case of the US, that the staffs of immigration offices should be expanded, particularly in Mexico, so that people can apply for legal entrance to the US, demonstrate an ability to speak basic English, and can be properly background checked.

If these steps were taken, illegal immigrants would leave, could apply for re-admission legally, and would have little incentive to invade. Border patrols would then be able to focus on drug cartels/trafficking and general national defense.

I also find it not a little ironic that Mexican president Calderon was in the US complaining about an Arizona law that basically just states that Arizona is going to enforce policies established by the US immigration laws already on the books. Why ironic? If you examine the laws against illegal immigrants in the country of Mexico (which I encourage you to do), the Mexican record of abuses against illegal immigrants in their country, and the criteria necessary to gain legal entry to live in Mexico, you'll know. It would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

I got these little cornbread discs at the store that you pop in the toaster so now my whole place smells like fresh out the oven cornbread.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Who said they have a problem with immigration?

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

I don't care about illegal immigration as such. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are indistinguishable from legal immigrants or US citizens aside from their immigration status.



http://www.islandpacket.com/2010/03/27/ ... d-and.html

According to the Island Packet, this is an invasion. Clearly the US government has a constitutional responsibility to protect South Carolina from Canadian tourists and their money.

Yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are members of criminal gangs. There are also far more US citizens who are members of gangs. Being in a gang and committing crimes is the issue here, not their immigration status.



How is it flawed logic? A crime is a crime. Do you support calling out the National Guard when a teenager buys some pot at a concert, or when somebody drives 55 in a 50 zone? The reason some crimes are considered more serious is due to the harm they pose, and I don't think the evidence supports you that illegal immigration is terribly harmful. According to studies illegal immigrants contribute more in taxes than they consume in services (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=881584), and immigration actually increases average wages for American citizens (http://www.nber.org/papers/w12497).

The actions of someone else have no bearing on your actions. If you commit an act that is considered a crime in the country you are in, then you are responsible for your illegal act and must suffer the consequences of your activity. The question is: Is the act you've committed illegal? If the answer is "yes", then a defense of, "but that guy committed a crime, too!" is silly. If you don't like a law, then rail against the law. You have a right to complain and try to change a law you do not like, as a citizen. But, as long as it is a law, breaking it rightfully carries consequences.

Laelia, respectfully, I ask you this question: Is it illegal for a non-citizen to enter into and live in the United States without going through proper legal channels to gain permission from the U. S. government?

Your empathy and clearly sincere concern for these people does not change the fact that they are breaking the law.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension