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It's funny how many people were OK with Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck while they were shitting on Bush for eight years, but let them take a stand on immigration or bureaucratic shenanigans, and they're "LOL SCARY."

Not that there was anything wrong with shitting on Bush, he was the worst republican ever.

Other than that, what I've learned is that Canadians think we shouldn't enforce our immigration laws because we'd be missing out on the opportunity to exploit people for cheap services...which is another problem I have with illegal immigration. When people sneak in, some of them end up at the mercy of some real low-life unscrupulous shitbag motherfuckers. Some of the coyotes that bring people across the border scam young girls so that they end up whoring themselves out to "pay" for their trip to the USA. "Hey, buddy, you can either do this job for $3 an hour or I can call INS." "I know this apartment isn't up to code, but fuck you, what you gonna do, call the law?"

While a lot of people want to play the butthurt and outraged card, I say they can eat the super jumbo sized chipotle barbecue bag of dicks. They get to do their little feel-good-I'm-better-than-you-because-I-care dance without giving any thought to the consequences of their stupidity. The unchecked illegal immigration into this country is bad for everybody, the people who are coming here included.

Also...NPR blows, and do you really expect politicians and government bureaucrats to just openly admit that they completely and total suck ass and are letting everything fall apart? Of course, they're going to say they're doing a swell job and everything is totally hunky-dory. Some asshat on the news the other night was talking about how the crime-rate in some Arizona city had dropped...but didn't have much of an answer when the moron reporter interviewing them asked how they'd explain the rise in kidnappings that put the city in first or second place in the US (world?) for that particular crime. The best he got was, "well, there's all kinds of crimes, and on average crime is down."

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

blasphemy

I should probably add some context to my blasphemy then:

ALL REPORTERS ARE HALF-WIT WANNABE NOVELISTS WHO DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT WRITING, WHICH MAKES THEM GULLIBLE TOOLS FOR WHICHEVER POLITICAL PARTY/ADVOCACY GROUP/WHATEVER WITH WHICH THEY AGREE, THEREFORE <insert news organization here> BLOWS.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

Also, I'm going to be a real ass and not apply any of the above to John Stossel. That guy's pro. It's like he wants to piss everyone off to the pissiest point of pissitivity. That, to me, makes him believable, but I'm a contrary, so think of that what you will.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Journalists don't receive the same training as novelists; for starters, most journalists actually went to school to learn what they do.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

So your point is...that they spent years training at something only to really suck at it?

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

The problem isn't the journalists, the problem is the sensationalist media the US is so fond of.

OMG JON GOSSELIN IS EATING A HAMBURGER, LETS DO A STORY ON IT.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

My dad is a published novelist and a journalist for (currently) CBC.

His last novel was about the Hell's Angel's driven sex trade in Canada extending to other reaches in North America. The next one being released is about his 2 month stint with the Canadian Military in Afghanistan during war time in 2002. The one he is writting currently is about Haiti and the American and Canadian soldiers that were lost there in the past year or so. He was lucky to leave 4 days prior to the tragedy, but sadly lost some close friends.

Even if he wasn't my dad, I would enjoy his journalism and also his books. That may be because he's not a part of the American journalism machine, though.

My point is - they ain't all bad. I know you're smart enough to figure out what's what.

On dates I like to rape it, kill it, rape it again.

Snowblind|Poisonberry

Mostly this ^

On dates I like to rape it, kill it, rape it again.

Snowblind|Poisonberry

I used to date a journalist. I haven't done any recent googles of her name, but she was a good egg. I'm sure your Dad is swell, too, and probably takes great pride in his work.

However...

I cannot tell you how many times I'd ask, "what you working on," get the synopsis (which I always enjoyed, because she thought that because she had a degree and I never went to college that I was retarded, and it usually turned into that "I'm talking to a small child" kind of condescension) then when she was done, I'd think about it for a maximum of five seconds (and here is where condescension became fun) then hit her with some off-hand remark that would cause her to make a very funny face and crumple up her notes.

She was generally on a deadline, and by her own admission could not do the in-depth research she would have liked. Your Dad may or may not have the same issue.

I don't take journalist seriously, because they never ask the question(s) that I would ask. It's really annoying to watch the news or read an article and wonder WTF the point of it is if they're not trying to get to the point and ask the right questions. That's not to say they're bad people, I presume that it's a flaw in the organizations they work for or the standard process of their education (take THAT Columbia School of Journalism!).

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Yesssssss....

You guys must realize by now that firsthand knowledge doesn't mean anything. Those are just anecdotes. Personal experience is trumped by someone living thousands of miles away because of what they read on the internet. If you want to know what it is like to live in Arizona or Texas, don't ask people who live actually live there. By extension, if you want to know what it is like to serve in the military in the Middle East (or to live in El Paso), don't ask Dotzilla. If you want to know something about living in Australia, don't ask Yewluze. Nope. Just search for your answers on the Internet and swallow everything whole.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

It's not about whether to enforce the law or not, but what a reasonable response is. How much money and effort are you willing to spend, and how many civil liberties are you willing to curtail in order to enforce the law? I think it's a debate worth having, but it should be based on facts and clear-headed reason, not unsupported assumptions and fear-mongering.




The plural of anecdote is not data, and physical distance is irrelevant to my ability to read statistics. If I wanted to know what the subjective quality of life was like in Texas, sure I would ask you. If I wanted to know what the 20-year trends in crime rates were, I would check a police database designed to answer that question, since the few crimes an individual is likely to experience during that period would be meaningless to the overall trend. You made some very specific claims about the harm illegal immigrants pose. To summarize:

1) Unavailability or difficulty in accessing health care and social services
2) Local tax increases
3) Loss of jobs and decreased wages
4) Increase in crime and drugs
5) Increased traffic and dangerous drivers
6) Fewer classes in local schools due to requirements for ESL classes
7) Decreased property values

All of these can be demonstrated with statistics, and for the most part can't be adequately examined based on anecdotes. Many places have experienced these things, and illegal immigration is by no means the only possible cause. I posted links earlier to 2 peer-reviewed papers suggesting that on the whole, illegal immigration has a positive beneficial economic impact on the US. Surely if what you believe is true there should be comparable data supporting your point. Even you can't prove causality, I would accept that your point is reasonable if you can show a correlation between the population of illegal immigrants and the specific harms you mention. This is such a hot issue in the US that it's hard to believe nobody has done some actual research on the issue.

Does it have bacon?

http://www.lonestarfoundation.org/The%20Cost%20of%20Illegal%20Immigration%20to%20Texas.doc


I'm sure you'll dispute this article, regardless of it's documentation. That's the problem with relying on statistics. Statistics usually come from outside sources with agendas. There's a famous saying I'm sure you're familiar with: "There are three ways to not tell the truth: Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

But with all of our point and counterpoint of the minutiae related to the impact on this problem, no statistic you can cite gets around one fundamental truth you've already ceded: These people are knowingly breaking the law. Therefore they have no right to complain about the consequences of their actions, and the citizens who have to live with this have every right to ask them to leave.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

Nice try, Boredalt. Everyone knows word documents aren't legitimate since you typed all that up yourself in the last couple hours and posted it to the intarwebz to push your fearmongering and hate-filled agenda.