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 Post subject: @Trinkets in WoW
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:50 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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One thing I think Blizz has really dropped the ball on in WoW is trinkets.

There are too many trinkets which are simply garbage. The good trinkets are generally hard to get because:

1. Shitty drop rates (RNG > you)
2. There are a small amount of these actually good trinkets...so EVERYONE wants them

Consider, the badge trinkets. Some of them are decent for healers. As for caster dps...uh, yuck. Hit trinkets generally start to really suck wang as hit becomes less essential as gear has more and more hit on it. I mean, doesn't it just seem silly that http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48724 is one of the better trinkets for a mage?

I FINALLY got http://www.wowhead.com/item=50345 yesterday...but it just took forever to get, and yeah, I got crazy lucky no one else in the PuG needed it.

What should blizz do about trinkets? There's so many that drop that are just a joke ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=47726 ) seriously, WTF is this shit??

Please weigh in on your thoughts concerning tanking trinkets and melee trinkets etc...because I can only speak from a caster point of view.


Azelma

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:56 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I hate on use, I prefer chance on hit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:57 pm  
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Blathering Buffoon
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i think it's pretty shitty how trinkets for damage dealing classes are a lot cooler than healing trinkets. people get to turn into a goddamn taunka? that's fucking awesome.

all we get is mana regen and occasional sp boosts. i want a trinket that turns me into a giant ball of light shooting renews out of my ass.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:59 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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http://www.wowhead.com/item=47727
useless

http://www.wowhead.com/item=50235
useless

http://www.wowhead.com/item=47216
One of the best trinkets you can get until the stam on the trinket is over 200.... GD I want a 277 version of that. Took me about 30 runs of toc5 to get it :( And done the same with others in about the same quantity to get this trinket

http://www.wowhead.com/item=49118
Why... Why is this better than trinkets that drop in togc10? and even a icc hm25 one...

http://www.wowhead.com/item=49116
see above

http://www.wowhead.com/item=40257
druid trinket for early tanking, pretty awesome cause of the armor. Useless once stam trinkets became so massive health increases

http://www.wowhead.com/item=45507
absolute fucking joke, that's not even 1.5% dodge when someone is geared enough to get that

http://www.wowhead.com/item=45158
One of the better overall tanking trinkets, stamina + avoidance CD
I've only seen 3 ever drop......

http://www.wowhead.com/item=47080
Decent trinket, the heroic version is even better (obviously). Seen 1 normal and 2 heroic drop ever :( Needs to drop more since this is still one of the better trinkets you can have (if it's heroic) for ICC

http://www.wowhead.com/item=47735
Good starting tank trinket for people, not the best for raids unless your fighting a pure melee boss (doesn't happen anymore)

http://www.wowhead.com/item=50341
This trinket had SUCH potential, if the heroic version had a 90% proc rate. It would be BiS. Also I've never seen this drop :(

http://www.wowhead.com/item=50361
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50364
Amazing stamina, use is only situational

http://www.wowhead.com/item=50356
Amazing stamina, use is bullshit

http://www.wowhead.com/item=50352
BAD



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:08 pm  
Tasty Tourist
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Honestly Blizzard has done quite a good job with trinkets in Wrath.

In TBC you had really 3 trinkets to consider as a end game caster DPS. The Skull of Gul'dan, Hex Shrunken Head, and Glimmering Naaru Sliver. You could maybe get away with using the Badge one, but honestly that was pretty much it.

Currently there is Reign of Unliving x245 / 258, Spyglass, DFO, Phylactery. Which is pretty much the same, though there is also the new instance adding in another one that will be up there.

Talk about shitty drop rates, look at how many guilds killed Muru for the Naaru Silver pre-3.0 and look at even how many killed Illidan..


Ipwnfaces
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:11 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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The really stupid part, is that most of the best starter trinkets for raiding (not ICC, I mean Naxx, Ulduar, maybe ToC) come from a five man regular dungeon that you can run until every person in the party has the items they want.


9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:17 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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ipwnfaces wrote:
Honestly Blizzard has done quite a good job with trinkets in Wrath.

In TBC you had really 3 trinkets to consider as a end game caster DPS. The Skull of Gul'dan, Hex Shrunken Head, and Glimmering Naaru Sliver. You could maybe get away with using the Badge one, but honestly that was pretty much it.

Currently there is Reign of Unliving x245 / 258, Spyglass, DFO, Phylactery. Which is pretty much the same, though there is also the new instance adding in another one that will be up there.

Talk about shitty drop rates, look at how many guilds killed Muru for the Naaru Silver pre-3.0 and look at even how many killed Illidan..

Icon was a great starting trinket as was the Scyer trinket. The Darkmoon card was BiS pre-Sunwell for a lot of people.

The other trinkets aren't puggable or drop so infrequently that its stupid. I've been using the same naxx10 trinket for a year now and I JUST upgraded to the razorscale one.

Some variety would be great, especially due to how homogenized loot is now and there are now twice as many people rolling for the same piece of loot.

EDIT: I've seen one DFO and one Spyglass drop. Good thing I was on my DK for both of them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:39 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Mayonaise wrote:
Icon was a great starting trinket as was the Scyer trinket. The Darkmoon card was BiS pre-Sunwell for a lot of people.

The other trinkets aren't puggable or drop so infrequently that its stupid. I've been using the same naxx10 trinket for a year now and I JUST upgraded to the razorscale one.


This.


Badge trinkets in TBC took you a lot further than they do in Wrath I think. Also, I remember heroic magisters terrace had some pretty solid trinkets, such as: http://www.wowhead.com/item=34470

Yes, the Sunwell and Black Temple trinkets were awesome...and less people could get them, but I think the other trinkets were at least comparable. Now, I don't think that's the case since the badge trinkets are mostly absolute crap.
----------------------------------------------------------

I think the problem with trinkets is that Blizz developers are like "oh this might be cool" and they just throw some half-assed trinket idea together. When, in reality, more often than not, the trinket is either insanely situational, or just crap.

Also, in terms of item level etc, it doesn't make sense. Some of the best trinkets are low ilevels (like http://www.wowhead.com/item=47216 ) while there's high ilevel trinkets that are completely "meh" Sure this could be Gearscore (GS) bullcrap rearing its ugly head, but in general, shouldn't higher ilevel = better? If blizz is going to assign ilevels to things, they should be consistent with it.


Azelma

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:50 pm  
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French Faggot
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http://www.wowhead.com/item=50362
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50342

Yeah, everyone's jealous of melee DPS.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:28 pm  
Tasty Tourist
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Casters don't have it too badly in ICC, either. Spyglass and DFO are easily obtainable in pugs now, barring a raid leader locking DFO or just taking it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:24 pm  
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Pinheaded Pissant
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until blackwing lair, the BiS melee trinkets were a blue quest reward and a rare drop from blackrock depths.

count your blessings, the situation has greatly improved.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:24 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Bornakk, on trinkets:

Quote:
Our raid item philosophy has evolved a lot since vanilla. The tier sets were once considered a badge of honor. Someone stalking around (or mailbox afking) with their full set bonus might as well have been sporting a legendary item. These days, we virtually guarantee that any player with an interest in raiding is going to be able to complete at least the lowest level version of their set with just a minimal level of persistence. This ultimately serves as a powerful reward mechanism and is in line with our philosophy of letting more players actually see the content.

This design though also has its risks. One of the big ones is that item progression becomes very predictable and deterministic. Imagine (just as an example) a model where all bosses drop emblems and every item you want is for sale. That may sound cool for a few weeks, until you hit the point that without any kind of random element to progression that you can calculate to the day/week at which you will finish gearing up your character. The excitement of what the boss drops would be gone and we feel this would end up making the purpose of clearing new content very underwhelming.

Trinkets are really the one item (weapons are to a lesser extent) that we use to try and capture that old slot machine feel from the classic Molten Core days. Yes, completely random loot with huge loot tables can be frustrating but we are pretty far from being completely random these days. Trinkets however are still somewhat random, they can be hard to acquire, and there is often a lot of competition for them.

Trinkets are also tricky to design because we don’t want them to be just a pile of stats like other items. We generally want them to be unique by having a random proc or an on-use ability or something similar. These types of things are always trickier to balance, but this is also what makes them interesting. We also don’t necessarily want every trinket to be a guaranteed upgrade just because the item level is higher. Knowing what works or doesn’t work for your particular character and play style is one of the ways players have to demonstrate their mastery of the game.

There are some aspects of trinkets for which we think we can do better. For example, it’s annoying when a superior item is on a lower tier of content to where you feel like you have to argue with your guild to go back and farm easy bosses or run a 10 player version when everyone else wants to do 25. Many of the trinkets probably represent too big a dps (or equivalent) jump given how difficult it can be to acquire them. It’s also easy for us to fall into a rut of offering basically the same one every time (often because we know players like it) rather than experimenting with different things. We like to try new things to keep gear interesting for players as we know some have been evaluating trinkets for over five years now.

We also probably just need to drop more of them. That doesn’t mean they should be trivial to acquire, but when say a caster only has 2 good options in Ulduar and 1 requires a hard mode, then there is going to be ton of competition when they do drop. We know it’s rough when the trinket you have been wanting finally drops and you have to roll against 10 other people for it. Having more trinkets would mean more variety, which means players may want different ones and ultimately will be a little more different from their friends/guildmates.


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Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:33 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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After reading that Aestu, it definitely makes some sense. I won't lie, when the spyglass dropped and I knew I had no competition for it, I had an orgasm.

That being said, he later concedes that they need to have more trinkets drop because of aforementioned rarity and competition. Blizz needs to make it so there aren't only 2 awesome trinkets that everyone wants. Having more trinkets that are equally good (although still different) I think should be a priority for blizz.

However, this requires extensive thought and creativity on the part of the designers. So much so that I am not confident that they could have much success. As it is, I still maintain there are far too many "bleh" trinkets out there.


Azelma

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma wrote:
After reading that Aestu, it definitely makes some sense. I won't lie, when the spyglass dropped and I knew I had no competition for it, I had an orgasm.

That being said, he later concedes that they need to have more trinkets drop because of aforementioned rarity and competition. Blizz needs to make it so there aren't only 2 awesome trinkets that everyone wants. Having more trinkets that are equally good (although still different) I think should be a priority for blizz.

However, this requires extensive thought and creativity on the part of the designers. So much so that I am not confident that they could have much success. As it is, I still maintain there are far too many "bleh" trinkets out there.


I was being sarcastic. He's a retard. The old status quo was fine.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:49 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Aestu wrote:
I was being sarcastic. He's a retard. The old status quo was fine.


lol ah missed that.


Azelma

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