Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:25 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:47 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Laelia wrote:
I think these complaints about how everyone is terrible now are completely myopic about the past. Standards are much higher now - how often do you see people getting ragged on for incredibly minor deficiencies in gemming ("omg you could have 4 more sp if you gemmed correctly, you're terrible"). My recollection of level 60 is that the average player was much much worse than they are today, and things we take for granted from average players now like min-maxing specs and gear, effective pulling in dungeons, etc. would have been a mark of an exceptional player back then. Perhaps the average raider looks worse now because so many more people are raiding, but I really think average skill has been steadily increasing.


There's a difference between bad and mentally retarded.

Have you LFD geared an alt recently?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:53 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am
Posts: 4695
Offline

Laelia wrote:
I think these complaints about how everyone is terrible now are completely myopic about the past. Standards are much higher now - how often do you see people getting ragged on for incredibly minor deficiencies in gemming ("omg you could have 4 more sp if you gemmed correctly, you're terrible"). My recollection of level 60 is that the average player was much much worse than they are today, and things we take for granted from average players now like min-maxing specs and gear, effective pulling in dungeons, etc. would have been a mark of an exceptional player back then. Perhaps the average raider looks worse now because so many more people are raiding, but I really think average skill has been steadily increasing.


See, I still feel this is false. Here are a few examples:

Threat: I remember when threat was a really big deal. You had to have omen in order to not be considered awful. I know many players who were not insanely geared, that still had to manage their threat. I feel like tanks had to work harder to maintain threat than they do now. Case and point, my Pally tank is pretty crappily geared, but I can just chain pull like crazy with insanely geared people and never lose threat. Tell me if im wrong, but this is what i've noticed.

CC: Do you know what "cc" is? If you do, you already know more than most new players. CC is gone. A mechanic that was so important for a variety of fights in the past is a shadow of its former self. Remember when you had to CC in heroics to avoid wiping? Heck, I remember having to keep shackles up in ZA and Kara while healing. Now it's just...CHARGE IN...AOE AOE AOE AOE. Fucking retarded.

Do you know what the "5 second rule" or "managing your mana" is? Well, grats, you are better than many people nowadays. I see healers just spamming, overhealing everything like crazy and not going oom at all...not even close. I remember when "overhealing" was kind of a bad thing...not anymore...just spam all day.


No, I definitely think they have dumbed the game down. As a result, people can be lazier than ever, and therefore crappier than ever. Spend a couple hours using LFD, you'll see what I'm talking about.


Azelma

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:16 pm  
User avatar

French Faggot
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm
Posts: 5227
Location: New Jersey
Offline

No, Laelia's completely right, and everyone who actually played Vanilla knows this is true. Mages didn't know what Counterspell was until Arena forced them to in BC. Warlocks auto-silenced and ate pummels because they were so used to auto-winning until health pools made them learn to play. Warriors were absolutely AWFUL, pretty much to every man, but it didn't matter because a big enough axe and a pocket healer (who only had to press 1 button) could take out an army to themselves.

I love to harp on the past, but the people I dealt with were the ones who actually were phenomenal. Good mages, like Igy, Anauroch, Kaizhi, and even Pieface could take out 2 or 3 people at once, while wearing blues, because the skill gap was just that enormous. And they'd do it while specced fire, to boot. The actual raids at 60 were laughable, only beginning to show any creativity around the Twin Emperors (Huhuran was just another resist fight), and even then the effort rested on a few shoulders while the rest of the raid got carried.

By the way, Aestu, I can't really tell what you got banned for. Discussing extradition treaties? Also, I've been gearing a warlock through LFD, and despite people definitely being retarded, it's not like the instances are hard. I'll take the badges.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:18 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Azelma wrote:
Aestu, you're far to cheeky/intelligent for Blizzard to handle. They only want fanboys and yes-men on the forums. No matter what your contribution to the game, the fact that you are opinionated, and have public sway (however much or little it may be) means that they must silence you. The fact that they've silenced you for...well nothing really..... leads me to be positive that this is true.


You have no idea how much it angers me when people say things like this.

Azelma wrote:
How are casuals the future? More specifically, what should blizzard understand about casualization. How can they possibly make the game more casual friendly without making it possible for terribads to get into pugs and be awful (even though they have welfare gear)?


I mean, I'm casual, I spend only 5 or so hours every week raiding. I don't consider myself to be a bad player in that I can put out respectable DPS and can more than do my part when healing, and I don't die in stupid shit or wipe raids.

However, I feel as though I'm an exception, not the rule when it comes to people who don't play often. The game blizzard is creating is sort of a double-edged sword.

Yes, someone like me, a decent player, can get good gear and see end game content without having to spend hours farming etc.

However, this also means that someone who is terrible, has no situational awareness, and fucks up even the most basic of game mechanics (idk...STAND UNDER SPORES or MOVE OUT OF THE GOO) can also obtain gear with relative ease. I've seen Mages with fantastic gear put out DPS that is simply abysmal. I've seen a hunter who just hit level 80 (wearing greens and blues) out DPS deathknights who are epic'd. I've seen hunters who somehow have ICC gear not know what the fuck a misdirect is. I've seen paladins who refuse to buy reagents because they are "expensive." I've seen shadowpriests cast mind sear on a boss (no adds). These things aren't isolated incidents, these are becoming commonplace in this game.
----------------------------------------------------
So, I ask you again Aestu, HOW?


Horizontal progression.
Execution-based gameplay.
More engaging world environment.
Less overly complicated/technical mechanics.
Glacial rate of change in the game as a whole.
Pervasive RP; fewer monologues.
Simple but elegant gameplay; fewer gimmicks.
Many - almost endemic - world events.

A super-casual MMO would feel like something like a cross between Vanilla WoW and Final Fantasy Tactics.

Raids would be like Karazhan or ZG - highly immersive, nothing really complicated or techical, very execution based, with a lot of weird exploratory stuff. PvE would be dominated by highly dynamic TBC-style encounters like Yogg or Aran.

PvP would be like WSG or AB - very simple, designed to grow with the game, with immense replay value. There would also be more GH or Halaa type events.

There would be more world PvP - almost constant. Many world bosses on short respawns, of many sizes and shapes. Instead of 10-15 fivemans there would be about a hundred.

There would almost always be world events going on. There would be a lot of wacky sidequests and vanity items. So many, it would never, ever be possible to collect them all, and they would be ubiquitous. You would expect to get one a day and never get all the thousands out there.

There would be microtransactions, but they would be cheap and numerous, like ringtones. Instead of half a dozen items in the store there would be thousands.

Itemization would be key, and it would be highly customizable, like Armored Core. Items would not merely have passive stats, on-use items would be common. Gimmick gear would be more common. Itemization would be more vanilla-like. Gear would not have an item level tag.

RNG would be pervasive. Drops would be highly random, making it impossible to farm anything. Bosses would be random, like Hydross trash or Opera event. Imagine if ToGC-10 had a three day reset and you fought three bosses out of 20 at random, on a timer.

Vendors would not have limited supply items. Instead, many vendors would simply change their stock at random, stop offering certain items, and suddenly offer others. You could walk up with 30k honor to spend and find the vendor has no belts or gems, but is offering a rocket launcher for your shoulders, or a rare unique-themed hoofguard.

The game would be grossly unbalanced, but sheer scale and mutually opposed forces would prevent individual imbalances from being gamebreaking. Good example would be prot pally vs vanilla rogue vs vanilla mage vs beta warrior.

The game would operate in real-time, but have some sort of diminishing returns and benefit caps, more like Pokemon than EvE.

The client would be very simple, highly functional, and almost uncustomizable.

Graphics would be both plausible and simplistic but absolutely fantastic. Most zones would look like Halaa, SMV or Winterspring, and nothing like Dragonblight, Borean Tundra, or Grizzly Hills - there would not be the "Five Flags" feel, with choppy conjoining of "rides" or quest hubs / vignettes. The graphics would be relatively crude but smooth looking - more like Final Fantasy Tactics or Vanilla than Half-Life or Halo.

Community would be everything in the game world. There would be a simple eBay-style feedback system, and most PvE and PvP would be coordination-intensive, with reciprocal rewards and ranking. The feedback system would encourage the same sort of thing seen on eBay or Facebook, where people make a whole hobby of farming rep with other players.

What would keep players playing would be the glacially slow pace of the game itself, the RNG that defeats farming (and burnout) and makes the game constantly suspenseful, and the constant new content, made possible by cheap technology and simple mechanics. It would be casual in that it would be almost Tamagochi-like - something you immerse yourself in with your free time. The real-time mechanic and constant variety would give the game a Civilization-like "one more turn" syndrome.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:23 pm  
User avatar

French Faggot
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm
Posts: 5227
Location: New Jersey
Offline

So... Ultima Online?


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:41 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am
Posts: 4695
Offline

Aestu wrote:
Azelma wrote:
Aestu, you're far to cheeky/intelligent for Blizzard to handle. They only want fanboys and yes-men on the forums. No matter what your contribution to the game, the fact that you are opinionated, and have public sway (however much or little it may be) means that they must silence you. The fact that they've silenced you for...well nothing really..... leads me to be positive that this is true.


You have no idea how much it angers me when people say things like this.


Wait, that I called you cheeky/intelligent? I think you are though, I think those are positive traits.

I don't agree that you should have been silenced, but I think Blizz employees felt like they must silence you. They can't stand criticism of any kind, especially constructive criticism. I remember reading a post you made on the official forums a long while back where you discussed the problems of over-modding/ outrageous bans etc. The fact that blizz refused to let the forums police themselves in any way, shape, or form. Of course that post was locked, even though you raised excellent points.

Again, consider the post I made about <BH Mod Squad>. I didn't curse, I didn't flame anyone, didn't say anything hateful at all. I just used hyperbole to illustrate a point about over-modding killing community. Essentially, it was a peaceful demonstration. What did I get for it? A perma ban. They didn't like the message. They didn't like my criticism. Rather than take it in stride, or consider it in anyway, they banned me, and deleted everything i'd ever written.


Azelma

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:58 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Azelma wrote:
I don't agree that you should have been silenced, but I think Blizz employees felt like they must silence you. They can't stand criticism of any kind, especially constructive criticism. I remember reading a post you made on the official forums a long while back where you discussed the problems of over-modding/ outrageous bans etc. The fact that blizz refused to let the forums police themselves in any way, shape, or form. Of course that post was locked, even though you raised excellent points.


Oh no no no

They locked that thread, and deleted everything ELSE I ever wrote.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:50 pm  
Blathering Buffoon
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:01 am
Posts: 1036
Offline

Can you resize or just link the image on the front page? I can't bring myself to read it with all the side scrolling on my laptop
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:07 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 2569
Location: In your dreams.
Offline

your talents are best used elsewhere.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:00 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Tehra wrote:
your talents are best used elsewhere.


...

I don't like having to go ret because we have a surplus of tanks and our Shadowmourne dips every raid. It can't be helped.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:00 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 2569
Location: In your dreams.
Offline

Aestu wrote:
Tehra wrote:
your talents are best used elsewhere.


...

I don't like having to go ret because we have a surplus of tanks and our Shadowmourne dips every raid. It can't be helped.


Your attempt at parrying with humor fails against someone with much expertise.

You did make me laugh though.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:14 pm  
User avatar

Get Off My Lawn!
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 5:57 pm
Posts: 704
Offline

I see something... you two should watch out.


Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:37 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 2569
Location: In your dreams.
Offline

already aware.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:51 pm  
User avatar

French Faggot
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm
Posts: 5227
Location: New Jersey
Offline

Cryptic response.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:54 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
Posts: 7047
Offline

Confused Statement.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

World of Warcraft phpBB template "WoWMoonclaw" created by MAËVAH (ex-MOONCLAW) (v3.0.8.0) - wowcr.net : World of Warcraft styles & videos
© World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. wowcr.net is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group