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If it's at the time where the fight was top tier progression, and assuming any bugs present at that time in the past were fixed.

Yogg 0, imo

But it is, the fight is nothing more than a pure numbers fight.

Either you have the damage to kill him, or you don't. The best guilds are able to kill him because they are able to pull out damage numbers that most cannot, be it because they can afford to stack the shit out of their raids, or have everyone swap professions.

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Another Cindered

A penny put in a jar is a penny not put in my nose.

It's the "end of expansion summertime I don't care anymore" attitude that makes H LK hard.

Also "pre nerf" vash was almost a completely non functional encounter it was so buggy.

Besides muru was harder than all the ones you listed.

Cindered
Another Cindered

A penny put in a jar is a penny not put in my nose.

All expansions' hardest bosses are at the end of the expansion.

Gwen Stefani's raiders show for the Tuesday clear and not the chain wipes for the other three days, not because they are out there sunning themselves.



It wasn't the bugs that stopped guilds from killing her. It was the mind controls and greater performance requirements. It wasn't any bug fix that let dozens of guilds kill her the night after the big nerf.



The sub-worldclass guilds that finally kill Arthas heroic won't have spent as much time on Muru as they will have on it, and Muru was not a mobility encounter for most of the raid. Muru became trivial in 3.0 because of the numbers; nothing else was changed. Heroic LK is not merely a numbers encounter, and even with a 30% buff, or hell even 50%, it'd still be enormously difficult because of the many other elements of the encounter that aren't strictly numerical and are execution based like nothing on Muru.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Never did Muru, so couldn't comment on it. Besides, Dek and I already discussed this:

hard does not = interesting. Hard just means it's hard.

Those fights I listed were challenging yes, but their mechanics made them fun.

All answered on posts above this one, although I'll never ever agree on muru because a brick wall of giant numbers is bumfucking retarded.

As for encounters I'd have to say Vashj as one.

Gothik the Harvester at 60 was a complete nightmare and no wipe was ever because "fuck we should've raid stacked to kill x or heal y better".

C'thun really needs no description.

Kel'Thuzad 60. Never pulled it at 60 because we sucked at Sapphiron, but just by doing it at 70 and imaginging yourself 10 levels ago with gear/talents it's pretty easy to say that it'd be horrendous.



Like what? The only thing that stops people are numerical wipes, other then Joebob has gone offline.

-Shambler enrage kills OT because hunter was slow on tranq
-Shambler frenzy kills OT because of bad luck / mismanagement with ghouls
-Shambler shockwaves raid, particularly during transition
-Failure at removing the disease (much harder than dispelling Dark Fiends because the positioning and timing is random and dynamic)
-Raging spirits juice someone or shriek the raid
-Positioning and mobility during the encounter in general
-OMG DEFILE
-It's a SHADOW TRAP!

Soul Reaper and enraged/frenzied shamblers will probably not be brute-forceable within this expansion.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Turnip has gone offline.
Turnip has gone offline.
Turnip has gone offline.
Turnip has gone offline.
Turnip gets hacked by chinas and goes offline.

best instance yet is deadmines.

Wut? There's a 5 second window to dispel, and you can stun the shamblers.

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Another Cindered

A penny put in a jar is a penny not put in my nose.

More like 1-2 seconds, because the person has to be next to the shambler. You can't afford to lose stacks. Yes you can stun the shambers, but their enrage has a short cooldown, and since an enraged swing will oneshot it requires very quick reaction.

Part of what makes a hard encounter hard is a lot of smaller challenges coming together.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

pure numbers hard, vanilla loatheb when it was progression was probably hardest there will ever be.

it was, in a word, impossible. possible through every possible buff around the world, multiple levels of health stone, bandages, pots, etc.

but the numbers in that case were in reverse. damage wise it wasn't that difficult. it was staying alive that was, without all those externalities, not possible.

and as far as i could tell, that was intentional. i suppose that is the only interesting thing about the fight, it was designed to be impossible in your own right. no amount of skill would change it.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

No encounter that is completely, totally, predictable and controllable, from pull to kill, is difficult. Loatheb was not hard; most guilds that got anything done in Naxx got him done before the other wing bosses.

If you think clicking a button on a timer is harder than moving left or right or targetting and killing things then I don't know what to say.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

there are a number of fights like that though. lich king just has the juice turned up on those elements a bit perhaps, but not unique in that design aspect.

hell, the very first raid boss (lucifron) had periods of frantic, encounter-hinging dispelling, offtanks that could easily die and movement. a lot less of it, but the design isn't new.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face