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Jeez. I know all the same people as Synthanos. Just gotta wonder who you're talking about.

grim's experience with lv 60 KT offers a lot of weight to his opinion. his facts also offer a lot of weight to his opinion. grim's opinion is morbidly obese.

ps i know you chained out a ton of them, but thanks for taking me on one of your old naxx raids. that fight is otherworldly. i had no idea how to do it at 60 and neither did the people at 60.

KT at level 60 was quite fun IMO. I really enjoyed Naxx overall at level 60. Maybe i find more joy because the toon I did the instance on sold quite well before BC came out.

Nice copypasta. No.

There is one and only one dedicated dispeller for the disease, the person has to move to a specific spot and then move out again. If there's a failure it's because of some error that exactly one of three people made - the dispeller, the dispelled, and the add tank. It's precisely because it's responsibility of particular individuals that it's more difficult.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

..everything? Any adds in the first phase, the MC has a large amount of important people it can pick. Since you seem to think defile and the disease are so "OMG", then KT's Mana Detonation and his Void zone are easily included. His ice tombs will instantly destroy the raid if someone moves wrong and begins an endless chain of it, considering how small the room was and the fact that AoE healing back then was practically non existant.



Someone already gave you a pretty good response to this, but whatever. His MC is the worst of any encounter in the game. It MCs an 8th of your raid including your main tank in an era where raid bosses weren't tauntable, and MD didn't expect, so DPS had to stop on a dime. If he mc'd OT's in the last phase shit could hit the fan very quickly. Kickers getting MC'd, although you would generally have some backup unless they got tombed.

It is nothing like Arthas where everything is predictable, other then who gets grabbed by the valks. You know exactly when defile is coming, when birds are coming, when frostmourne room is inc, soul reaper, etc. KT used his abilities whenever he wanted and more often then not, he'd cast them back to back. This is in an era of the game where every class didn't have every oh shit button available.



Which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the encounter, it's just the playerbase. You claimed this is the hardest boss ever, I said it isn't.

Those mechanics are all exactly as they are now and with the change in nothing more than raw numbers they are trivial.


Kael was the same way. So is Deathwhisper and many other bosses. He did not MC your tank EVERY attempt so that is a form of RNG mitigated by simply trying again.



Then go kill it.


Your dps has nothing to do with anything but you or whoever else is pressing the buttons.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Tanks do not get MC'ed anymore in KT 80, unsure of the OTs though

If your tank got MC'd on KT-40 pull again. Problem solved.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

no they aren't. the MC was GUARANTEED on your main tank. 100%, no ifs ands or butts, despite how much we like butts, and it doesn't even reset threat anymore despite him being tauntable in his reincarnation. all of the mechanics are severely more trivial now, the fact that you even said that just shows you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

not that the void zone was ever an issue, but you have almost twice the time to move from it now. the frostbolt volley does completely negligible damage, even when naxx was relevant in WotLK, compared to it being an actual oh shit moment at 60. the cooldowns on his abilities are longer, and he never chain casts anything at all. the only one that is remotely dangerous in comparison to the original one is ice tombs, and even then the new ones only do 104% instead of 130, which is just a fucking replenishment tick to save you as opposed to having to throw quick reactive heals.





really now.


I will, as soon as people stop running into shadow traps.



you're right. an entire minute or more shorter on a kill completely doesn't inflate the DPS on every meter site.

Just fucking stop. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You know replenishment doesn't restore HP right?

I don't need to look at your WMOs or be in your raids to know that Shadow Traps aren't the only things wiping you.

The reason that the encounter is a minute shorter for the better guilds is that each individual raider puts out performance superior to nearly any of the raiders you or I raid with. The fact that their individual DPS is mutually inflated doesn't change the fact that they're still individually superior one-on-one with us in the same comp. If you or I or anyone else in this thread raided with these people we still wouldn't put out their level of DPS, even with DPS inflation due to higher uptimes and shorter pulls.

Obviously I wasn't aware of that particular mechanic - and this is something good to know - but even so, Lady Deathwhisper, Gurtogg Bloodboil and even Vael were untauntable and required tank swaps. Whether the tank gets MCd or stands there ineffectually or blows up, it adds up to the same thing, which is that you need multiple tanks building threat on the mob and taking it in turn. Bloodboil and even arguably the other two as well were harder in this sense for the same reason I related, which is that a player has a lot more control - and thus potential for error - if he must move away or stop building threat or manage a debuff rather than simply get sheeped once it's time for a tank swap.

You can fuck up running out with the bomb or depriving the other tanks of threat or getting too many stacks of acid or whatever. How do you fuck up getting mind controlled?

The fact that I haven't seen this encounter, doesn't change the fact that those who have are finding the new encounter more challenging. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. You do it or you don't. And even the guilds that have killed it are generally of a consensus that it's more difficult than anything at 60.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Everyone doing 5% more DPS on their own can account for an increase of 10-15% overall. I'm pulling these numbers out randomly but what I'm trying to say is one person doing more DPS means the fight is shorter which means everyone else got more time with Lust/Hero which means everyone's DPS looks higher on paper. So no, DPS isn't just you, it's everyone.

Also, KT mind controlled the tank every time at 60, it was part of the encounter and it sucked even though I've only killed him at 70 and it still sucked then.

Also butts.

Even insofar as this is true they are still superior players as individuals.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

psh. dps is hard.

I love how aestu is convinced that everyone who doesn't migrate to a top what ever guild is not skilled enough to compete with said guilds on an individual level(maby because he cant?)... I pretty much see alot of fights that are harder mechanic wise then LK(norm or hard) alot of it comes down to the timers thing, if you stick your nuts to your DXE/ DBM/ whatever its not that bad at all. There is no SUPRISE moments in that fight(or most others in wrath IMO). And you keep coming back to the plague witch is but fuck easy to "handle"... I mean if you are having problems with that then maby the fight is hard... for you...

And as far as KT goes, FFS its so so so much easier in WRATH as alot of fights are simply for the fact that healing /tanking(threat wise atleast) is so so so much easier, I mean PreBC FoL was the shit for RAID healing...

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