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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:33 pm  
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Laelia wrote:
Mns wrote:
Usdk wrote:
Don't stand in fire = skill.

I'd disagree with you, but they've done such a good job at watering down specs in terms of difficulty that I think that this is one of the few remaining factors in differentiating between players.


Which specs have been watered down? I'm pretty sure the majority of classes have more interesting and complex rotations/priorities now than they did during BC.


affliction warlock tank for illidan says hi


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:38 pm  
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Tehra wrote:
Laelia wrote:
Mns wrote:
Usdk wrote:
Don't stand in fire = skill.

I'd disagree with you, but they've done such a good job at watering down specs in terms of difficulty that I think that this is one of the few remaining factors in differentiating between players.


Which specs have been watered down? I'm pretty sure the majority of classes have more interesting and complex rotations/priorities now than they did during BC.


affliction warlock tank for illidan says hi


1 spec out of 30?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:40 pm  
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Both very difficult specs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:01 am  
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Laelia wrote:
Tehra wrote:
Laelia wrote:
Mns wrote:
Usdk wrote:
Don't stand in fire = skill.

I'd disagree with you, but they've done such a good job at watering down specs in terms of difficulty that I think that this is one of the few remaining factors in differentiating between players.


Which specs have been watered down? I'm pretty sure the majority of classes have more interesting and complex rotations/priorities now than they did during BC.


affliction warlock tank for illidan says hi


1 spec out of 30?


I'd be willing to say spriests too, but I don't know much about them.

Considering I'd be willing to wager that the only specs that were actually semi-difficult were spriest and affliction locks during TBC, my comment holds merit.

Not to mention with the whole dot clipping thing in Cataclysm, any notion of the only "hard" part of dpsing being difficult goes straight out the window.

Also, I'm pretty sure arcane mages are a 2-button spec in terms of damaging spells.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:41 am  
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Mns wrote:
I'd be willing to say spriests too, but I don't know much about them.

Considering I'd be willing to wager that the only specs that were actually semi-difficult were spriest and affliction locks during TBC, my comment holds merit.

Not to mention with the whole dot clipping thing in Cataclysm, any notion of the only "hard" part of dpsing being difficult goes straight out the window.

Also, I'm pretty sure arcane mages are a 2-button spec in terms of damaging spells.


If only 2 specs were difficult in BC, it really doesn't mean anything for overall player skill if those two were watered down. As I said, I'm pretty sure the majority of classes are more complex now. Even arcane has a bit more complexity in deciding when to use MB procs to maximize DPS/DPM tradeoffs.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:49 am  
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Rotations are more complex now. Encounter mechanics are generally simpler.

The changes in WotLK that give the impression to many that the game is more inclined in favor of the stupid is that the "passing grade" is lower, and very few encounters have a real learning curve.

The fact that the bar for performance at the highest level is higher than before isn't relevant to anyone but the most stratified elements of the playerbase, and the fact that there's no incentive for performing well at the lower level, because there is no disincentive to perform badly, causes a gradual attrition and broadened mediocrity throughout the entire playerbase.

The fact that the optimal rotation is more complex doesn't change the fact that the average player can get by in the overwhelming supermajority of settings by rooting himself and mashing his "2" button.

Even heroic ICC has very few encounters that are novel or dynamic. Most are stationary and uninteresting. The fact that rotations are more complex now doesn't change the fact the encounters themselves don't take even half a brain, and the reason for this is very simple: Blizzard wants encounters that can be defined entirely through tuning, and that this tuning can be modulated so anyone can do the content. Lack of imagination on the part of the devs is also a significant factor. You don't see the sort of encounters that were very common in TBC - highly mobile, distinct, random, with unusual mechanics that can be dealt with in many different ways.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:42 am  
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Mns wrote:
Laelia wrote:
Tehra wrote:
Laelia wrote:
Mns wrote:
Usdk wrote:
Don't stand in fire = skill.

I'd disagree with you, but they've done such a good job at watering down specs in terms of difficulty that I think that this is one of the few remaining factors in differentiating between players.


Which specs have been watered down? I'm pretty sure the majority of classes have more interesting and complex rotations/priorities now than they did during BC.


affliction warlock tank for illidan says hi


1 spec out of 30?


I'd be willing to say spriests too, but I don't know much about them.

Considering I'd be willing to wager that the only specs that were actually semi-difficult were spriest and affliction locks during TBC, my comment holds merit.

Not to mention with the whole dot clipping thing in Cataclysm, any notion of the only "hard" part of dpsing being difficult goes straight out the window.

Also, I'm pretty sure arcane mages are a 2-button spec in terms of damaging spells.


ill throw fury warriors in there too. BT->WW and spam HS and slam when it procs. nothing to it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:53 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
You don't see the sort of encounters that were very common in TBC - highly mobile, distinct, random, with unusual mechanics that can be dealt with in many different ways.


I miss council and warlock tanking fights :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 pm  
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I continue to submit Yogg-Saron as their greatest PvE success of all time. TBC PvE may have been more random (and stupid) and I submit I didn't actually do any of it since you could just PvP to victory in that expansion, but Ulduar was legitimately great and I don't particularly enjoy PvE usually.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:28 pm  
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I never ran anything beyond the first two wings of Ulduar when it mattered, but I imagine it being beyond awesome.

However, Blizz sure did manage to shoot themselves in the foot with ToC and Naxx. OS+3 and Maly are up there too in terms of uniqueness and fun. ICC is kind of in the middle. It has some pretty great fights (PP and LK) and some highly derp ones (BQL, Sind, etc). The idea of a heroic mode as opposed to a specific event that triggers a hardmode (ex. Mimiron button) was a total cop-out in my eyes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:29 pm  
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Toc was a copout.

I mean I'm all for no trash in instances, but at least let us go through different rooms during a raid.

not just the same ONE room as the fucking FIVE MAN.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:51 am  
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Killing Trash: "Wow this is boring can we get to the boss yet?"

No Trash: "Blizzard catering to casuals as usual."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:17 am  
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I agree with you Mayo, I enjoy things like activating hardmode through doing something differently in the fight...such as pushing Mimirons button or overdpsing XT's heart.

I don't like how you have to first kill LK, then have that person reload the zone on hardmode difficulty.

It just kills it for me...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:31 am  
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The big red button was probably the best hard mode activation.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:58 am  
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I wasn't even going to buy WotLK, but I got laid off the day before it came out so I ended up getting it anyways to kill some free time.

- Heroics are insanely easy, brb falling asleep healing on my druid in full lvl 70 gear, brb grabbing whatever the hell I want on my tank, brb using everything but my single target attacks as DPS.
- brb doing the same non-competitive battlegrounds that I don't want to do FOR TWO FUCKING EXPANSIONS every arena season so I can pvp.
- Naxxramas was lazy, insanely stupid for people that actually did it as 40 man, and ridiculously easy.
- Hard modes are lazy and stupid. You killed the boss, congrats you killed the boss. Now press a button and kill the boss while he does 2 times the damage, has 2 times the hp, and now killer wasps fly around that you have to run away from.
- Stopped playing by the time Ulduar came out, when I played again Ulduar 10 was a joke minus vexazzz and yogg even though some bosses gave some ridiculous loot like the 2nd boss sword
- ToC. lol. 2 rooms, 1 boss per week, no trash, most obvious "oh shit we need to delay for ICC/cataclysm ever"
- The ICC 5 mans seemed pretty cool never zoned in to the raid instance though
- wow is bad and if you play you're bad and should feel bad


Last edited by Quittermike on Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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