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 Post subject: @Aestu
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:11 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
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So what do you think of this?

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25578319 ... g-changed/

You can only imagine what I think of it!

Specifically:

Quote:
What we will probably do with really unusual mounts like Mimiron's Head and Invincible is make them a rare drop. The 100% drop rate won't make sense when you can overpower the content.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:04 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I think the real motive is dev ego merged with stupid producers who don't understand WoW but feel aggrandized, or that their resources have been better spent, when the ticker shows one more instance of a raid they designed has been completed. To these people, the fact that the playerbase as a whole was happier during TBC means less than the fact that a higher percentage of players have cleared ToC-25. This is why they think putting the Blue Drake in Oculus fixed the instance; they really do believe that players should play for loot. It's like the chef whose answer to every culinary conundrum is to empty a bottle of MSG into the pot.

This is also why we have these raid weeklies: they actually believe that the ticker showing "another Naxx-10 has been launched" so players can zerg down the weekly boss represents a triumph for them as developers and a better return on their investment. They can boast "More people saw my content!"

I noticed that one shaman in the thread who called drakes "content". That sort of person is really who this is aimed at - anyone so deluded about the game or who gets so worked up that someone else has something he doesn't is by definition not casual but a hardcore bad. The same kind of player who thinks he's good because of his Gearscore then gets angry when you point out that with that full 264 gear and a 25% buff he still hasn't applied it to down anything past the first wing. This guy will actually feel he's on the level of real raiders because he has the same drake they got 16 months ago. And then he'll feel perfectly positioned to trash talk when you tell him he can do something better.

It speaks volumes about Cataclysm content that it's going to be designed entirely through tuning, so when the next tier comes out everyone can brute-force it. What this means, is it will be totally undifferentiated in terms of depth and mechanics. Every encounter except the odd "hard mode only" boss will be pure numbers, so they can keep using raids as hand-me-downs. There will be no room for encounters with novel mechanics that are challenging in their own right, and certainly nothing with a learning curve. Imagine if Malchezzar had the same level of complexity as Illidan and all that changed were numbers.

I've already decided I'm not going to buy the expansion, not because I'm an elitist who thinks content should be exclusive, but because the way the game is being designed is empowering its worst elements, not as players, but as individuals. They actually think it's better that players be banned for damaging the reps of ninjas and bad players than risk losing subs to ostracism. They actually think that it's because of vote kickers that the kicked players doing 10% of the group's damage aren't getting their heroics done.

I like the part where Ghostcrawler says that heroics "didn't get done" before he lent his magic touch to the game. It speaks volumes about his take on meritocracy and community.

I also feel that Blizzard customer service isn't just bad, it's insulting and offensive. I have had quite enough of talking to GMs and reading CM posts saying anything that doesn't work as it should is the playerbase's fault, whether it's a memory leak, faction change bug, botting, the community, or pathing mechanics.

However, the quote itself - making mounts a rare drop - I think is a decent idea. I think it is logical to make it so "if you really, really, really want this, you can farm it". I think it's a decent compromise between totally locking out the ZA bear and catering to Nightfall zergers. The question is, what exactly what the drop rate will be.

I don't particularly mind the ZA bear being unobtainable, I don't think it's unfair - which doesn't change the fact that I as an obsessive collector have and will continue to do whatever I think has half a chance in hell of getting my paladin one. I do think the inconsistency shown with the Black Proto and Slow Brewfest Ram makes no sense.

Considering it would make many people happy at no cost to put the handstamp back on the vendor, I can't fathom why they don't do it. Taken in hand with things like the recent memory leak bug and Northrend Children's Week fiasco - infuriating bugs and oversights that would take five minutes to solve through adjusting one line of code - I can only conclude the devs are in their own world, high on hubris, only concerned with implementing their own self-aggrandizing fantasies.

P.S. The other day, I decided I wanted to get [item]Formula: Enchant Gloves - Healing Power[/item] for more income. Actually it was something I'd been meaning to do for a while, but the impetus for finally overcoming my reluctance was a druid in the guild who wasn't an enchanter and wanted rep. So I started thinking about pugs, when to schedule them, what loot policy, how many to take, the difficulty of leading effectively from Zeida, etc...

So, I went in with the druid. It dropped off Skeram on the first pull.

Cha-ching!

P.P.S. Inb4 TLDR


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:13 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
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Quote:
P.S. The other day, I decided I wanted to get Formula: Enchant Gloves - Healing Power for more income. Actually it was something I'd been meaning to do for a while, but the impetus for finally overcoming my reluctance was a druid in the guild who wasn't an enchanter and wanted rep. So I started thinking about pugs, when to schedule them, what loot policy, how many to take, the difficulty of leading effectively from Zeida, etc...


Oh you would.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:28 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Er, you're supposed to get all bitter I got it on the very first boss after you took - how long? - to get it...


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:29 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Aestu wrote:
the playerbase as a whole was happier during TBC


What makes you say this?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:34 pm  
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Laelia wrote:
What makes you say this?


The fact that content was non-trivial meant that people had to actually get along to get anything done. This also made it less grindy since clearing instances wasn't nothing more than time spent.

People who earn things are typically more secure in how they carry themselves than people who simply have them handed to them.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:36 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Er, you're supposed to get all bitter I got it on the very first boss after you took - how long? - to get it...


To not get it*

Still waiting =D

edit: getting bitter over a game isn't worth it :p


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Last edited by Jushiro on Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:40 pm  
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French Faggot
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Aestu wrote:
Laelia wrote:
What makes you say this?


The fact that content was non-trivial meant that people had to actually get along to get anything done. This also made it less grindy since clearing instances wasn't nothing more than time spent.

People who earn things are typically more secure in how they carry themselves than people who simply have them handed to them.


Weren't you the one saying that LK Heroic was non-trivial? Or are you talking specifically about regular clears?


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:47 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Weren't you the one saying that LK Heroic was non-trivial? Or are you talking specifically about regular clears?


I'm talking about the game that the super-majority of the playerbase plays.

Heroics, ToC, and all of ICC. And by all I mean everything up to Saurfang.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:53 pm  
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French Faggot
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I don't really see it as a problem that the majority of the playerbase can kill 4 bosses out of 12 in the expansion's last dungeon like 4 months after it has come out.

And after 2 years, I'd hope heroics are trivial at this point. Mechanics that were clever or tricky (not that there were any) will stop being clever or tricky when your tank has a quarter the health a boss has and your DPS hit twice as hard as they should be hitting.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:57 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Laelia wrote:
What makes you say this?


The fact that content was non-trivial meant that people had to actually get along to get anything done. This also made it less grindy since clearing instances wasn't nothing more than time spent.

People who earn things are typically more secure in how they carry themselves than people who simply have them handed to them.


This is just pseudo-psychological hand-waving. What is the relevance of having to get along - if you don't get along with the people you're playing with in the first place, why would being forced to spend time with them to accomplish anything make you happier? What is "more secure in how they carry themselves" supposed to mean?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:18 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Laelia wrote:
This is just pseudo-psychological hand-waving. What is the relevance of having to get along - if you don't get along with the people you're playing with in the first place, why would being forced to spend time with them to accomplish anything make you happier? What is "more secure in how they carry themselves" supposed to mean?


It's an MMO, and even being in a guild the reality is that players need to associate with the wider playerbase to complete their objectives. Everyone knows the heroic-farming Gearscore champion who now expects to join raids and autoattack to loot. Even aside from pugging, I reject the notion that playing this game should resemble nothing so much as waiting at the DMV. Trivialization and removal of progression has wrought great harm on the community and quality of game experience.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:23 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
It's an MMO, and even being in a guild the reality is that players need to associate with the wider playerbase to complete their objectives. Everyone knows the heroic-farming I AM A BAD PLAYER champion who now expects to join raids and autoattack to loot. Even aside from pugging, I reject the notion that playing this game should resemble nothing so much as waiting at the DMV. Trivialization and removal of progression has wrought great harm on the community and quality of game experience.


What does any of this have to do with the happiness of the playerbase? The fact that things don't always conform to your expectations of the genre has nothing to do with whether people actually enjoy playing the game.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:01 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Laelia wrote:
What does any of this have to do with the happiness of the playerbase? The fact that things don't always conform to your expectations of the genre has nothing to do with whether people actually enjoy playing the game.


It's not fun playing with that sort of person, and moreover, I refuse to believe that someone who conducts themself that way is enjoying what they are doing. These same people who slog through heroics and zerg ICC for loot would smack kobolds for hours if it got them 264 gear. You think it's even possible to enjoy that?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:13 pm  
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this thread let me down


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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