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 Post subject: Blizzard's Strike 2
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:33 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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Quote from: Zarhym (Source)
When we first announced our design goals for class talent trees back at BlizzCon 2009, one of our major stated focuses was to remove some of the boring and "mandatory" passive talents. We mentioned that we wanted talent choices to feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time. Recently, we had our fansites release information on work-in-progress talent tree previews for druids, priests, shaman, and rogues. From those previews and via alpha test feedback, a primary response we heard was that these trees didn’t incorporate the original design goals discussed at BlizzCon. This response echoes something we have been feeling internally for some time, namely that the talent tree system has not aged well since we first increased the level cap beyond level 60. In an upcoming beta build, we will unveil bold overhauls of all 30 talent trees.

Talent Tree Vision

One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.

As a result, we can keep the unique talents in each tree, particularly those which provide new spells, abilities or mechanics. We’ll still have room for extra flavorful talents and room for player customization, but we can trim a great deal of fat from each tree. The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful. Your rotations won’t change and you won’t lose any cool talents. What will change are all of the filler talents you had to pick up to get to the next fun talent, as well as most talents that required 5 of your hard-earned points.

We are also taking a hard look at many of the mandatory PvP talents, such as spell pushback or mechanic duration reductions. While there will always be PvP vs. PvE builds, we’d like for the difference to be less extreme, so that players don’t feel like they necessarily need to spend their second talent specialization on a PvP build.

The Rise of Specialization

We want to focus the talent trees towards your chosen style of gameplay right away. That first point you spend in a tree should be very meaningful. If you choose Enhancement, we want you to feel like an Enhancement shaman right away, not thirty talent points later. When talent trees are unlocked at level 10, you will be asked to choose your specialization (e.g. whether you want to be an Arms, Fury or Protection warrior) before spending that first point. Making this choice comes with certain benefits, including whatever passive bonuses you need to be effective in that role, and a signature ability that used to be buried deeper in the talent trees. These abilities and bonuses are only available by specializing in a specific tree. Each tree awards its own unique active ability and passives when chosen. The passive bonuses range from flat percentage increases, like a 20% increase to Fire damage for Fire mages or spell range increases for casters, to more interesting passives such as the passive rage regeneration of the former Anger Management talent for Arms warriors, Dual-Wield Specialization for Fury warriors and Combat rogues, or the ability to dual-wield itself for Enhancement shaman.

The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees couldn’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance.

Getting Down to the Grit

Talent trees will have around 20 unique talents instead of today's (roughly) 30 talents, and aesthetically will look a bit more like the original World of Warcraft talent trees. The 31-point talents will generally be the same as the 51-point talents we already had planned for Cataclysm. A lot of the boring or extremely specialized talents have been removed, but we don't want to remove anything that’s going to affect spell/ability rotations. We want to keep overall damage, healing, and survivability roughly the same while providing a lot of the passive bonuses for free based on your specialization choice.

While leveling, you will get 1 talent point about every 2 levels (41 points total at level 85). Our goal is to alternate between gaining a new class spell or ability and gaining a talent point with each level. As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.

A True Mastery

The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen. These passives are flat percentages and we no longer intend for them to scale with the number of talent points spent. The Mastery bonus that was unique to each tree will now be derived from the Mastery stat, found on high-level items, and Mastery will be a passive skill learned from class trainers around level 75. In most cases, the Mastery stats will be the same as the tree-unique bonuses we announced earlier this year. These stats can be improved by stacking Mastery Rating found on high-level items.

To Recap

When players reach level 10, they are presented with basic information on the three specializations within their class and are asked to choose one. Then they spend their talent point. The other trees darken and are unavailable until 31 points are spent in the chosen tree. The character is awarded an active ability, and one or more passive bonuses unique to the tree they've chosen. As they gain levels, they'll alternate between receiving a talent point and gaining new skills. They'll have a 31-point tree to work down, with each talent being more integral and exciting than they have been in the past. Once they spend their 31'st point in the final talent (at level 70), the other trees open up and become available to allocate points into from then on. As characters move into the level 78+ areas in Cataclysm, they'll begin seeing items with a new stat, Mastery. Once they learn the Mastery skill from their class trainer they'll receive bonuses from the stat based on the tree they've specialized in.

We understand that these are significant changes and we still have details to solidify. We feel, however, that these changes better fulfill our original class design goals for Cataclysm, and we're confident that they will make for a better gameplay experience. Your constructive feedback is welcomed and appreciated.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:33 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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tldr?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:35 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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tldr:
talent points will be given once every 2 levels, giving you 41 points at 85.
They are trimming talents down even more than the current calculators. You can't spend points in another tree until you've spent 31 in one tree. You are committing to a talent tree at level 10
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:37 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Quote:
To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:39 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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yeah, i saw that too usdk....

but right now this decision looks like it will be bad. They could change my mind when new talent trees come out. It just feels like they are stupifying the game even more
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:41 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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After a few years of the same thing, something different might be good.

Then again, this is Blizzard, any good will be heavily diluted and every possible horror will fly out of Pandora's Box and rape your face.

In other words, I vote "no" on Prop 404.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:58 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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possibly good.

it looks like most of the fluff talents "5 points for 5% more damage" shit wil be passive anyway.

THAT part is good, at least.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:59 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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Usdk wrote:
possibly good.

it looks like most of the fluff talents "5 points for 5% more damage" shit wil be passive anyway.

THAT part is good, at least.


i can agree with that

my problem is this drastic of a change will take a full expansion to iron out and getting shit talents for an entire expansion is not something i'd enjoy
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:12 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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My roommate didn't renew his account after the "we are please to have put you name on all interwebs, yes?" announcement.

I have a feeling WoW will be a very, very lonely experience in Cata.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:17 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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I like it. It sounds like picking a specialization will give you the benefits of the higher-end passive talents, at a lower level (of course, at a lower percentage, too)... which is pretty awesome.

And what's the harm about focusing skills toward one specialization instead of letting derps spread their points across all trees? You just said you wanted to be an arms warrior... be one.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:21 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am
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I'm Switzerland about it.


Azelma

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:24 pm  
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Attention Whore
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Azelma wrote:
I'm Switzerland about it.


Engi-nerd
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:30 pm  
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From what I have seen it could work. I stress "could". What this will do is give you the passive benefits that you would normally have to wait several levels for, in exchange for not having the super hybrids or or just the bads that put points evenly through the trees becasuse they think they have to. I would expect there to be alot of PVP fall out though. Imagine the locks that like to go to soul link (in the current trees that is) while keeping all of the points in affliction that you can. With the new system that would not work. The holy pallies with the points in prot for survivablity will be no more, and yes, arms warriors would have to spec as arms warriors. I think it will be interesting to say the least and I would not write it off as all bad quite yet.

However, FUCK REALID


9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:38 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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Kamguh wrote:
Usdk wrote:
possibly good.

it looks like most of the fluff talents "5 points for 5% more damage" shit wil be passive anyway.

THAT part is good, at least.


i can agree with that

my problem is this drastic of a change will take a full expansion to iron out and getting shit talents for an entire expansion is not something i'd enjoy

This, this, and fucking this.

It took them what, like 9 months to balance out DKs?

This just seems like another stupid move to "casualize" the game, but has no real basis in coherent thought. I didn't care much about the RealID thing, but the removal of spellpower and this are my two strikes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:34 pm  
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French Faggot
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This better not turn into AIDS.


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