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This isn't a personal attack on anyone so please don't take it that way.

Why would no one adopt that kid? Do they now stamp it on babies forehead when it is the product of a rape? I think not. It isn't a valid argument.

I will say that rape/incest is a valid argument, regardless I am against it should it be post-heartbeat.

To me the line is when that baby gets a heartbeat. That is the most firm distinguishing characteristic I can fathom.

Does a rock have a heartbeat?

I know this argument can go on forever, as Boredalt said there is no "right" answer for everyone. People have difference of opinions that is life.

To me post heartbeat abortions are wrong, again this is an opinion but it is murder and I feel very strongly about this.

When I first saw/heard my sons heartbeat it was absolutely the most amazing thing in the world. When I help my son for the first time and he looked at me with blissful unawareness I knew that it was my responsibility to protect him always. So I guess personal feelings do come into play.

For those that say accidents happen, well yeah they do. You never know you could be the little accident that got away. I value anyone and everyone's opinion whether I agree with them or not. And my opinion is that I am glad you weren't that aborted child Akiina or Tuhl or anyone else who is 'pro-choice'

What the fuck does that mean anyway? Who the hell are any of us to decide life or death? Whether it be the death penalty or abortion.
My personal feelings toward crimes are, an eye for an eye. If you kill someone you should be killed. If you rape someone, well throw that fucking piece of trash in jail and let the lifers have fun with them. You steal something you should have to pay for it 10 fold.

Obviously it would never work, but I don't disagree with lethal injection or the electric chair. If you ask me they should bring back hanging, while barbaric the theatrical effect helped to stall crime back then. The problem with the death penalty is those that are convicted yet innocent. There are lots of cases of this and for those people I am very sad.

*****Reserved for more, have to work....********

**Edit: Took out harsh terminology for post heartbeat abortions.**

While I disagree with them the decision is hard enough on the woman, I am not in a place to judge. Just sucks.

85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
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I'm assuming you injected your concentrated sin into a woman to make your children. Why didn't you adopt?

RETIRED.
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Because I can't talk my wife into it, I have had a son and I would like to adopt as well. I obviously am not stupid so I can't go out and adopt without her consent unless I left her.

Should we ever divorce or if I can convince her I will adopt. Why? Because to me those children deserve love just as much as my son does.

**Nice try though ******

85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
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Argument station?

I am THE man.
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Wanna fight bro?

85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......

def bro, lets get it on.

/srs

I think the whole heartbeat is a little over romanticized. Yes its an important organ, but it doesnt do that much aside from blood circulation. Its just as important as any other major organ, kidneys, lungs, etc. One of these alone does not make a human, all of them together. So i think a hearbteat is a little silly to judge when to abort or not by, the development of kidneys is just as logical. You just dont swoon over kidneys.

Granted i cant judge how it feels to hear your unborn kids heart, cause i havent been there and hopefully wont for a couple of years.

Potential life* Miscarriage is still a very real option here, so it isnt like OMG THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BORN, lots of things can go wrong. Also, what would you say to aborting children that have some genetic disease? Tesax or something similar that garuntees a life of pain and misery for the child and parents, not to mention the financial burdens.

Or even if the pregnancy potentially jepordizes the woman's health?

For genetic diseases, things like tesax that virtually garuntee an early death have my full support. Its a burden on the health system, on the parents financially and emotionally having to see a loved child suffer so and die. But as you get furth down to mild ones, such as Downs and Autism, i feel that to be very grey. Down syndrome and autistic children can still lead full lives and be contributing members of society. But i would rest final decision with the parents if they believe they can handle the added responsibility/requireed care.

As for the second scenario, unquestionably i would save the mother and abort.

I am THE man.
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Save the mother, I know this sort of contradicts what I said and how I feel. But the mother of the child is extremely important both physically and mentally. No one loves a child like his mother, even I understand that. I can try to come as close as possible but I didn't carry my son.

Sure someone else could be a mother to the child, but there is no telling should they save the baby and let the mother die, that the child would live. It is too precarious.

85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......

It's not what the thread is about but capital punishment is observably ineffective in curtailing crime rates, signed every European country ever with lower crime and no death penalty.

Anyway, I'm not a father, so I haven't had a brain-altering epiphany regarding heartbeats and such, but I maintain it's just another threshold that ultimately means nothing. As Quadtard put it (to my surprise, he's growing on me here) a single organ isn't meaningful enough. A heart on its own, even a beating one, is just as useless as any other organ on its own. We've come to associate heartbeats with life, but there are plenty of other necessary organs that aren't as showboaty as hearts and are just as essential.

None of this is to say abortion is a decision to be made lightly. I'm just saying it's a decision that can be made.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Im like a tumor, i keep growing until you feel really sick, then you attempt to cut me out, but you find i just stick around.

Also thats my third compliment this week, i think its a new record.

I am THE man.
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any medical professional will state that, without a doubt, the kidneys are the most important organ and essential to every aspect of physiology. no one gives a shit if fetuses have kidneys. the heart is, like quadtard stated, romanticized and fairly useless during pregnancy because the mother is perfusing the fetus' tissues with her placenta.

these medical facts are gross.

i'm glad this thread wasn't aborted to the argument station.

we've gotten lazy.

carry on.

I see what u did there...

Akiina - Priest - Royal Militia
Leeloo Minai Lekarariba-Laminai-Tchai Ekbat De Sebat

There's no worse feeling than that millisecond you're sure you are going to die after leaning your chair back a little too far.

You ever see those protesters on the news, and there's one group yelling one thing at the other group on the other side of the street yelling the exact opposite thing back?

Am I the only one that thinks it would be not only side-splitting comedy of the highest order but also a little bit of cosmic justice if gang-bangers rolled down said street and totally fuckerized BOTH sides with a hail of gunfire?

I hate protesters. They're annoying fucks...especially the abortion ones (from either side). The tea party hasn't done anything to change my opinion, sadly.

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