Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
It is currently Mon Apr 21, 2025 3:04 am



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:01 am  
User avatar

Str8 Actin Dude
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 2988
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Offline

Aestu, I would strongly advise you to educate yourself before making such rash statements. Men and women are equal.

This basically provides the best argument for gender equality that I've yet to come across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:05 am  
User avatar

Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 402
Offline

Quote:
Sexual dimorphism is phenotypic not genotypic. Men and women have all the same genes except for a single, extra-small chromosome, and even that can be all the same and the phenotypic differences can be expressed with hormone treatment.

My point about sexual dimorphism is that men and women are clearly different. So why would we say they are necessarily "equal"?


Quote:

I didn't ask if they were quantitatively equal to men, I asked if they were qualitatively equal. Are they? Answer me that.


Are any two people qualitatively equal? Wouldn't that require them to be purely identical with the same thought processes, morals etc? To achieve to the same outcome from two people they would have to be identical in every aspect, even then it would be chance regardless of statistical numbers.

Why ask that question? I wouldn't say there is a definite answer.

I am sure you have some awesome response that is filled with more questions. So let's hear it.


85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:08 am  
User avatar

Pinheaded Pissant
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 1515
Location: Boston, MA
Offline

Aestu wrote:
Battletard wrote:
Aestu wrote:
You say my views are sexist. So do you believe men and women are totally equal? Why be unreal? What's to be gained?


Equal in what regards? Intellectually? Physically?


Qualitatively.

Do you know what sexual dimorphism is?


You just in essence did this.

Battletard: Which way, A or B?
Aestu: Yes.

He was asking which quality you are talking about.

And yes, sexual dimorphism in humans means that men and women have different physical characteristics, but you'd have to be more specific for that to be meaningful. Which particular characteristics do you think are pertinent?

The only ones I can think of would be directly related to the act of child weening, such as breastfeeding, but that is only applicable for a very narrow window of time and during a time when the mother would most likely be home recovering anyways. Any overlap between when the mother would go back to work and the child would still need weening could (and usually is) covered with breast pumps and bottles.

Beyond that, there really aren't any physical characteristics that would benefit a woman more than a man for staying home. That leaves just the other side of the equation, the work being done to support the household. But that's a bit unrealistic, as any job that has meaningful physical limitations (where the man would have to do it because he's stronger) would also not make enough money to support a household on a single income.

A stay at home dad would probably be married to a professional woman, a doctor or lawyer or someone in that salary range. Those are jobs that have no real gender requirement. Just like a stay at home mom would most likely be married to a professional man.

I know a guy that writes video game guides for supplemental income and generally is a stay at home dad. I'm not sure what his wife does but she apparently makes enough money to support them in a fairly nice house.

edit: And yes, I understand I was taking a loose interpretation of sexual dimorphism, but that was still the only example I could think of that even loosely applied.


Image

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:13 am  
User avatar

Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 1:16 am
Posts: 5269
Location: Flolrida
Offline

No one is equal, bottom line. Everyone is different. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses and from that their worth should be determinded, not from their skin color or sex or fez hat. Due to the mix of strong women/men and weak men/women both on a proffesional and psychological level we are, on average, eqaul with in reason.

Even though most men have physical advantages over most women while women tend to have the advantage of men catering to them wether they want/need it or not. Tit for tat.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:20 am  
User avatar

Feckless Fool
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:46 am
Posts: 1459
Location: canadianaville
Offline

Necrachilles wrote:
No one is equal, bottom line. Everyone is different. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses and from that their worth should be determinded, not from their skin color or sex or fez hat. Due to the mix of strong women/men and weak men/women both on a proffesional and psychological level we are, on average, eqaul with in reason.

Even though most men have physical advantages over most women while women tend to have the advantage of men catering to them wether they want/need it or not. Tit for tat.


I c wat u did there

Also Aestu, for someone who is smart, you are fucking stupid. Almost Doggiedog stupid.


I am THE man.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee15 ... 171424.jpg

Fantastique wrote:
I love you.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:31 am  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

thegodslayer wrote:
Are any two people qualitatively equal? Wouldn't that require them to be purely identical with the same thought processes, morals etc? To achieve to the same outcome from two people they would have to be identical in every aspect, even then it would be chance regardless of statistical numbers.

Why ask that question? I wouldn't say there is a definite answer.

I am sure you have some awesome response that is filled with more questions. So let's hear it.


We're talking about groups of people. Male and female are distinct precisely because they are not identical. You're evading the question: Are men and women qualitatively equal?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:33 am  
User avatar

Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 1:16 am
Posts: 5269
Location: Flolrida
Offline

Aestu wrote:
thegodslayer wrote:
Are any two people qualitatively equal? Wouldn't that require them to be purely identical with the same thought processes, morals etc? To achieve to the same outcome from two people they would have to be identical in every aspect, even then it would be chance regardless of statistical numbers.

Why ask that question? I wouldn't say there is a definite answer.

I am sure you have some awesome response that is filled with more questions. So let's hear it.


We're talking about groups of people. Male and female are distinct precisely because they are not identical. You're evading the question: Are men and women qualitatively equal?


Yes.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:35 am  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

dek wrote:
Equal in what regards? Intellectually? Physically?

Aestu wrote:
Qualitatively.

Do you know what sexual dimorphism is?


You just in essence did this.

Battletard: Which way, A or B?
Aestu: Yes.

He was asking which quality you are talking about.


Either/or.

dek wrote:
And yes, sexual dimorphism in humans means that men and women have different physical characteristics, but you'd have to be more specific for that to be meaningful. Which particular characteristics do you think are pertinent?


Personality, traits, tendencies, etc. Qualities, not quantities.

dek wrote:
The only ones I can think of would be directly related to the act of child weening, such as breastfeeding, but that is only applicable for a very narrow window of time and during a time when the mother would most likely be home recovering anyways. Any overlap between when the mother would go back to work and the child would still need weening could (and usually is) covered with breast pumps and bottles.

Beyond that, there really aren't any physical characteristics that would benefit a woman more than a man for staying home. That leaves just the other side of the equation, the work being done to support the household. But that's a bit unrealistic, as any job that has meaningful physical limitations (where the man would have to do it because he's stronger) would also not make enough money to support a household on a single income.

A stay at home dad would probably be married to a professional woman, a doctor or lawyer or someone in that salary range. Those are jobs that have no real gender requirement. Just like a stay at home mom would most likely be married to a professional man.

I know a guy that writes video game guides for supplemental income and generally is a stay at home dad. I'm not sure what his wife does but she apparently makes enough money to support them in a fairly nice house.

edit: And yes, I understand I was taking a loose interpretation of sexual dimorphism, but that was still the only example I could think of that even loosely applied.

The same argument could be used to rationalize slavery - how else would society make ends meet? - and the counter-argument is the same, which is that people manage to make do without it, and that it's immaterial anyway because the argument is moral and not economic.

You're claiming that in terms of personality traits and psychology, women and men differ only in terms of their sex organs and physical secondary sexual traits? Besides that, are they exactly the same - you wouldn't be any different in terms of your tastes, personality, etc, if you were born without a Y chromosome?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:36 am  
User avatar

Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 1:16 am
Posts: 5269
Location: Flolrida
Offline

Aestu wrote:
So are you claiming that in terms of personality traits and psychology, women and men differ only in terms of their sex organs and physical secondary sexual traits? Besides that, they are exactly the same - you wouldn't be any different in terms of your tastes, personality, etc, if you were born without a Y chromosome?


Correct.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:38 am  
User avatar

Feckless Fool
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:46 am
Posts: 1459
Location: canadianaville
Offline

thats pretty well scientifically correct...


I am THE man.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee15 ... 171424.jpg

Fantastique wrote:
I love you.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:40 am  
User avatar

Str8 Actin Dude
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 2988
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Offline

ITT: Aestu fails at quoting / vaginas.


Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:42 am  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Upon what basis do you say that men and women are inclined to develop exactly the same psychology and personal traits given that in every place and time and even in society today they are divergent in the same ways?

This is where sexual dimorphism comes in.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:43 am  
User avatar

Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 402
Offline

Aestu wrote:
thegodslayer wrote:
Are any two people qualitatively equal? Wouldn't that require them to be purely identical with the same thought processes, morals etc? To achieve to the same outcome from two people they would have to be identical in every aspect, even then it would be chance regardless of statistical numbers.

Why ask that question? I wouldn't say there is a definite answer.

I am sure you have some awesome response that is filled with more questions. So let's hear it.


We're talking about groups of people. Male and female are distinct precisely because they are not identical. You're evading the question: Are men and women qualitatively equal?


In their own ways yes. I would say they are.

Equal does not = same


85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:45 am  
User avatar

Feckless Fool
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:46 am
Posts: 1459
Location: canadianaville
Offline

ITT: Aestu is mildly misogynistic and uses history, which has a history of misogyny to back up his own misogynistic ideas.

Say that 10 times fast.


I am THE man.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee15 ... 171424.jpg

Fantastique wrote:
I love you.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:48 am  
User avatar

Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 1:16 am
Posts: 5269
Location: Flolrida
Offline

Aestu wrote:
Upon what basis do you say that men and women are inclined to develop exactly the same psychology and personal traits given that in every place and time and even in society today they are divergent in the same ways?

This is where sexual dimorphism comes in.

Image


Case closed. Looks like a slam dunk to me.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

World of Warcraft phpBB template "WoWMoonclaw" created by MAËVAH (ex-MOONCLAW) (v3.0.8.0) - wowcr.net : World of Warcraft styles & videos
© World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. wowcr.net is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group