Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I think the failure of guilds to recruit and "promote from within" to build multiple teams of raiders is one of the reasons we have the "guild hopper syndrome." If you're only willing to take people who are already there, you're limiting yourself, your focus in the game is too narrow, and you're missing out on the fun of getting someone to your level.

Seriously, a guild shouldn't just be 10-30 people who are only in so that they can clear something and get pixels out of it. The myopic focus on 'progression' is causing a lot of people to miss a lot of opportunities.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Alright, gear aside. Let's say you're right and everyone can just gear themselves out in 264.

I think you have to look at it from a different perspective. Perhaps it's easy for you, you are obviously somewhat talented at the game. If I played more than once every 2 weeks, perhaps I too could get an invite to Tasty Beverage. You are forgetting that we both raided in TBC, we both have people who know who we are and would vouch for our abilities in game. Not everyone has this benefit.

However, you did not respond to my other points, which are things that can prevent your toon from "upward guild mobility"

1. What class are you? Are the end game hardmode guilds recruiting it?
2, What spec are you? If they aren't recruiting for your spec, you'd have to gear out and become talented at the spec they ARE recruiting for
3. How much talent can they see through your application? What if you started playing in WotlK? What if you were stuck in a shitty guild that isn't even 11/12 ICC? What if you were in <Last Chance Rejects> with Jubber and you only got gear from random pugs and luck?
4. Do you really think Tasty Beverage or some equivalent guild would take someone no one knew who didn't even have a LK kill under their belt? Logically someone else might have that LK kill, and they would clearly be favored...why wouldn't they be? They have experience. That's a barrier, Aestu.

These things are questions guilds consider. These are very clear barriers to upward guild mobility.

You claim it is "easy" because it is for you. I'll agree it SHOULD be easy, everything in this silly game is easy...but it's NOT for everyone. There are social barriers and other logistical things you should consider.

A majority of the player base is certainly CAPABLE of being invited to TB, but only a small percentage will meet the requirements to be invited. Therefore, you cannot say that it is "easy" to move up to hardcore guilds...there's just too many limiting factors.



This is from someone in the highest end of raiding guilds.

I disagree fundamentally with this. TB is a small guild. We dont want bench raiders. We want to have an active, committed raiding roster with enough depth and talent to be able to get things done. We have about 30 active raiders. Thats it. We wont recruit anymore unless a spot opens up, or unless someone so exceptional comes along that it would warrant a special.. well.. exception.

I think guilds should stay small. I think you should have a close knit group that sticks together and get things done. I believe that when you start to have these larger guilds, and multiple strings of raids, you breed in competition/resentment between teh two, because inevitably, one group is going to do better than the other. This CAUSES guild hopping. People dont want to be in Guild X's 2nd string raid. They want to be a main string raider.. so they, and maybe their other buddies in raid #2 leave in search of greener pastures.


And Aestu, maybe some guilds would close up shop, but I guarantee the top tier guilds wont. Taking a break = guild death for top tier guilds. Many players wont want to take a break. So they will leave if their guild stops raiding.


EDIT:
Azelma, we get a LOT of apps. Many of them are 11/12 people. Its not disqualification being 11/12 by any means, but the #1 question is, "Why isnt LK dead?" As time goes by we'll likely be looking at those players more closely, because lets face it, HMLK25 has killed a LOT of guilds, and there are good players in there. Sticking it out through a terrible half a year of wiping to the same boss shows the drive to try to get things done, if nothing else Getting that first kill is painful.

Myrrar, let me ask you.....is it "easy" to get into Tasty Beverage?

I'll bet you have more than 30 friends/acquaintances in game. Why wouldn't you want them all in your /g? Is there any reason why TB, or any guild for that matter, couldn't front an impressive 30 seat 25 man raid team along with one or two good ten mans? Hell, with rated BGs coming up, isn't anyone interested in farming the living hell out of AV?

I think you'd be surprised how many people would "settle" for "second string" so long as they were in a guild they liked. I also think that if you rotated your teams every so often, that "2nd string" effect wouldn't be a factor, and knowledge gained and shared between the two groups would improve the guild immensely.

Sometime less is more, and I feel you there. I just also believe that there is room for bringing people in, helping them improve, and the rare reward of polishing a diamond in the rough that you get in between finding a lot of really good people you like who are mediocre at the game.

I know you guys have your goals, and you're very focused on those, but I think you're missing some of the other perks of the game.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

If you're not functionally retarded, yes.

Seriously though, it depends on what we need. We've compromised on lower geared players who show skill potential because their class was needed at the time. Sometimes it turned out great, other times.. not so much.

Its much more than just having good dps/hps numbers too. The reason most high end guilds want parses, is because you can tell a whole lot from a parse. If you use one skill too much, or too little (i.e. a resto shaman with a low riptide count, a feral druid with 93% uptime on savage roar on a fight like festergut, etc) it raises red flags. I know whenever a druid apps, Im looking at his spell count and healing by target and all that fun stuff, as well as raging if he has a +23 spellpower in his gear along with a +20 haste. It becomes a massive game of min/max and we look for people who are really committed to that.

In addition to that you have to have a decent raid history, experience is a huge huge factor. I skipped most of TBC because it sucked. And almost all of WOTLK. I came back at the end of TOC. While I had little TBC and no WOTLK experience, I was a top tier raider in classic. I suppose the officers got a sense that I at least knew what I was doing, had good awareness, and was able to commit to this level of raiding. My gear was behind, but my experience was my selling point.

So really, its not that hard.... as long as you have those things, which are harder to get for some than others. Theres the catch22 I suppose.

Yeah, we have many many alts/friends/friends of friends in guild. They do their own thing. Do randoms with us, and come to our alt raids sometimes. They are not main raiders though. We do 10 mans with them sometimes, now that 10 mans aren't mandatory for main raids anymore.

And trust me, our /g is always a massive social event. You may thing we're all business, but its quite the opposite. TB is unlike any hardcore guild ive ever been in. Its really a lot of fun

Oh, well then, good show and all that.

That's really the sort of thing I like and want to encourage.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Why would anyone in a guild that's killed 12/12 leave to join another guild that is also 12/12?

Also, I pummel on Vezax and killed Yogg-Saron before anyone else on the server, this automatically makes me the best raider here.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Jubber: without sarcasm, raid guilds aren't the Navy, they don't have the time or incentive to run vocational programs for long-term HR.

Azelma: Guilds are ALWAYS looking for skilled players. If one guild is not recruiting the class, another surely will be. It's that simple. The number of players with the skill and inclination to raid HLK who have not yet killed it on normal is miniscule.

"Part of skill is identifying it."

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

It's not just the Navy, ol' pal. Any organization that builds for long-term success will use a similar strategy...I do see your point, though, especially considering the life-span of most guilds on the server.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Some hardcore guilds are like the army. No community. Half the people hate eachother. Sometimes you just cant stand to play in one place anymore, so you look for something new.

Works out, peace!

The only hardcore guild I've ever been in worked mostly like you guys, if what you said about your guildchat is true.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

This is why I enjoyed wow until toc was released.

what happened when toc was released?