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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:23 am  
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Aestu wrote:
Games like Fallout *snip* And I think that greatness is diminished, not heightened, by gratuitous violence and blood and gore. What makes those games great is the depth of character development, the story, the gameplay, the adventure, the dialogue; the violence is merely a superficial addition to pander to the lowest common denominator, and I think that's unnecessary and it holds the genre back.


What if I wanted to make a RPG that tells a story about a desolate post apocalyptic wasteland, where people are barely making it and tribes fo violent raiders run rampant. I want this game to be wonderfully atmospheric and really draw players in, so there would have to be a lot of violence, and oppression against many of the peaceful people to give that sense of gritty realism I'm striving for. I want to tell the story of a wanderer in this wasteland, who has to somehow overcome all this. Should there be no violence? Should the wanderer only talk his way out of every bad situation, and spread flowers and love wherever he goes? I'd say that breaks the atmosphere.
In the case of a game like Fallout, I think the violence is quite warranted, really. Bags of gore, skulls and charred bones everywhere, lots of shooting.. all builds the atmosphere of this world. I think its really central to the story in fallout, honestly. Granted, sometimes it goes over the top when you get a critical strike and your target blows into a million meat chunks, and you could make the argument that something like that should be toned down... but the violence is a central theme to this world, and removing it would completely destroy Fallout.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:24 am  
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myrrar wrote:
Aestu wrote:
Games like Fallout *snip* And I think that greatness is diminished, not heightened, by gratuitous violence and blood and gore. What makes those games great is the depth of character development, the story, the gameplay, the adventure, the dialogue; the violence is merely a superficial addition to pander to the lowest common denominator, and I think that's unnecessary and it holds the genre back.


What if I wanted to make a RPG that tells a story about a desolate post apocalyptic wasteland, where people are barely making it and tribes fo violent raiders run rampant. I want this game to be wonderfully atmospheric and really draw players in, so there would have to be a lot of violence, and oppression against many of the peaceful people to give that sense of gritty realism I'm striving for. I want to tell the story of a wanderer in this wasteland, who has to somehow overcome all this. Should there be no violence? Should the wanderer only talk his way out of every bad situation, and spread flowers and love wherever he goes? I'd say that breaks the atmosphere.
In the case of a game like Fallout, I think the violence is quite warranted, really. Bags of gore, skulls and charred bones everywhere, lots of shooting.. all builds the atmosphere of this world. I think its really central to the story in fallout, honestly. Granted, sometimes it goes over the top when you get a critical strike and your target blows into a million meat chunks, and you could make the argument that something like that should be toned down... but the violence is a central theme to this world, and removing it would completely destroy Fallout.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgUppXcPe_0[/youtube]


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:26 pm  
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I feel the more damaging problem is lack of realism/consequences in movies and games. Granted games can be only so realistic, but movie violence of all types is so glossed over and glorified it is a far cry from reality. A guy gets shot by a single bullet and falls over silent.

A few months ago I was at a local bar (the waterway in york). There is a small 'park' right next to it, just a concrete area with some benches and industrial art pieces. On one of those benches was a guy talking on a cell phone, when he was shot from behind (turned out to be a 15 year old who just wanted to rob him). He was shot in the chest and while some called for an ambulance others just stood there watching him scream and roll on the concrete 40 yards away. His cries were horrible, and watching him knowing there wasn't anything I could do was a terrible feeling, you just felt like you were watching him die. The ambulance got there in time, but he died later that night.

That kind of thing stays with you and granted it's not easy to portray in a movie or a game, but they never seem to even try anymore. Bullets in everyone, a little blood for some effect, then 5 seconds later silence unless the bad/good guy has something to say before passing away.


Dvergar /
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:48 pm  
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Dvergar wrote:
I feel the more damaging problem is lack of realism/consequences in movies and games. Granted games can be only so realistic, but movie violence of all types is so glossed over and glorified it is a far cry from reality. A guy gets shot by a single bullet and falls over silent.

A few months ago I was at a local bar (the waterway in york). There is a small 'park' right next to it, just a concrete area with some benches and industrial art pieces. On one of those benches was a guy talking on a cell phone, when he was shot from behind (turned out to be a 15 year old who just wanted to rob him). He was shot in the chest and while some called for an ambulance others just stood there watching him scream and roll on the concrete 40 yards away. His cries were horrible, and watching him knowing there wasn't anything I could do was a terrible feeling, you just felt like you were watching him die. The ambulance got there in time, but he died later that night.

That kind of thing stays with you and granted it's not easy to portray in a movie or a game, but they never seem to even try anymore. Bullets in everyone, a little blood for some effect, then 5 seconds later silence unless the bad/good guy has something to say before passing away.


The big irony here is that I don't care for violent video games, but I would be less affected by that sort of thing than anyone in this thread.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:53 pm  
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You'd be surprised.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:55 pm  
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Dvergar wrote:
I feel the more damaging problem is lack of realism/consequences in movies and games. Granted games can be only so realistic, but movie violence of all types is so glossed over and glorified it is a far cry from reality. A guy gets shot by a single bullet and falls over silent.

A few months ago I was at a local bar (the waterway in york). There is a small 'park' right next to it, just a concrete area with some benches and industrial art pieces. On one of those benches was a guy talking on a cell phone, when he was shot from behind (turned out to be a 15 year old who just wanted to rob him). He was shot in the chest and while some called for an ambulance others just stood there watching him scream and roll on the concrete 40 yards away. His cries were horrible, and watching him knowing there wasn't anything I could do was a terrible feeling, you just felt like you were watching him die. The ambulance got there in time, but he died later that night.

That kind of thing stays with you and granted it's not easy to portray in a movie or a game, but they never seem to even try anymore. Bullets in everyone, a little blood for some effect, then 5 seconds later silence unless the bad/good guy has something to say before passing away.


How'd that 15 year old get a gun with all that awesome gun control? You mean criminals will break that law, too?

On another note, what made you know "there wasn't anything you could do?" You're too good to walk across the street and apply pressure to a wound? You should have felt like you were watching him die. You were!

Sorry to rag on you that hard, but it's hard to listen to someone bitch about needing a hole when they're standing next to a shovel.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:38 pm  
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Quote:
How'd that 15 year old get a gun with all that awesome gun control? You mean criminals will break that law, too?


Edit: Nevermind, I'm a dummy and I'm too used to every argument here going liberal v conservative right away.

Quote:
On another note, what made you know "there wasn't anything you could do?" You're too good to walk across the street and apply pressure to a wound? You should have felt like you were watching him die. You were!


Yeah that would have made about 10 people who were over there by the time I got there. That feeling of watching him die, seeing him rolling around and seeing the blood on his shirt and ground, that's one of those few-seconds-that-feels-like-hours kinda deals.

Quote:
Sorry to rag on you that hard, but it's hard to listen to someone bitch about needing a hole when they're standing next to a shovel.


I'm saying that games/movies portray violence too non-chalantly, exactly what shovel am I going to use to effect that change? I didn't lay blame for any of what happened on anything, I simply gave an anecdote from my life.


Dvergar /
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Last edited by Dvergar on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:47 pm  
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you completely missed his point.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:58 pm  
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Usdk wrote:
you completely missed his point.


Yeah I kinda felt like I was missing something.

I blame third shift, I'm having a hard time adjusting to the schedule.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:59 pm  
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As evidenced by this lack of differentiating between an edit and a quote button.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:49 pm  
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his point was why regulate the cause(assuming violent video games are the cause) of the violence when you can't regulate the means of the violence.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:05 pm  
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Usdk wrote:
his point was why regulate the cause(assuming violent video games are the cause) of the violence when you can't regulate the means of the violence.


Yeah I understood when I re-read it.

However, given that we will never control the means of violence we are absolutely right to try and control it's causes (not I believe that video games are at all the cause). I don't think carding minors for games is really meant to keep them out of kids hands more than absolve the industry of the blame that poor parents want to place on them.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:16 pm  
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It's not about violence, it's about culture.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:24 pm  
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Dvergar wrote:
absolve the industry of the blame that poor parents want to place on them


now THIS i would support.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:58 pm  
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I like this new guy, he amuses me. There are things you're going to love about third shift work.





By things, I mean, I hope you like Denny's, IHoP, and Waffle House (Huddle House if they have that in yo' hood).

Oh, and Gawd do I wish I hads me a Krystal up in dis bitch.

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