Fantastique wrote:
Well then your problem with it is your opinion that everyone should be self-serving. Now it's just your opinion versus mine.
What's more self-serving: expecting people to be self-reliant/sufficient, or expecting someone else to cover your (or anyone else's) expenses?
Fantastique wrote:
I believe that those who can't afford it should get some help in affording it instead of being left to suffer.
I also believe that help should be afforded to people who need it. It's called "charity." It ceases to be charity, however, when it becomes mandatory. I also believe there are negative consequences to the "forced charity" of government programs. It removes the contributors from the problem. How many people do you know who volunteer to do any type of charity work? How many of those are only doing it for some sort of college credit? Our society has inclined toward a Scrooge-type "don't my tax dollars already pay for poor houses" attitude. It has engendered selfishness more than it has, as you imply, increased selflessness.
Fantastique wrote:
In my case, where we come from, raising kids is a lifelong commitment, not just until they are 18 and "adults" whereby we should kick them out of the house and let them fend for themselves in order to "prepare" them.
Yeah, we're nothing like that here. In fact, we kick our young out of the nest when they become competition for food (the ones we didn't eat shortly after their birth, anyway).
I moved out of my parent's house after I graduated from High School. After 18 years of my Dad doing the Red Foreman and "you better be ready to move out when you're 18," I was surprised when he was upset that I moved out. My first apartment is not far from where I live now. If I were 18 today, I don't know that I could do that. Rents here have doubled (if not tripled in some cases) in the last 20 years...wages haven't kept up. I believe that government policies have contributed to these conditions more than they have done anything to alleviate them.
In short, I don't begrudge anyone living at home/with their family, but even at 18 there are a lot of personal responsibilities your average human being is capable taking care of themselves. At one time, young people got married, started a family, and ran farms at a younger age. It was a different time, but I believe that the only reason anyone believes young people, like yourself, are incapable of taking care of themselves is because we've lowered our expectations.
Fantastique wrote:
]You are only assuming that my mom is upset about paying for my insurance, when in fact she has not thought twice about it. My parents both turned out great with this parenting style. I'm not saying the other style sucks, in fact it works just as well. But you guys ARE saying that our way sucks, which it does not.
I was making no assumptions about your mother, nor would I since I don't know her (Momma Jokes are still fair game, though, I love those). My concerns aren't with your the impact on your Mother in particular, but all of us in general. I'm also not saying there is anything wrong with taking care of members of your family regardless of their age. I moved my brother in with me while I lived in FL so he could attend college. He more than returned the favor several years later when he asked me to move in with his family after I lost my job and couldn't keep up with my rent and other bills. Nothing "sucks" about your family or any other looking out for one another. What does "suck" is that we were told that the healthcare legislation was supposed to drive down costs and make things easier, but it's turning out that's not the case. It's full of provisions that will lead to increased costs which will eventually be passed on to us as consumers. Complications are already arising, like the HSA changes I talked about earlier.
Fantastique wrote:
Also, driving up costs was the reason for the public option which would have kept premiums competitively low. Republican retards voted that out of the bill simply because you would have to pay a bit more. And now you're STILL crying about increased premiums. What genius plan do you have to keep premiums low and companies in check? Oh right.. keep things the way they are where insurance companies can drop you when you get sick (WHAT is the point of paying for HEALTH CARE if you are dropped when you get sick) and we still have to pay insane costs. Well as long as the top 2% of the country is happy...
How were we going to magically pay for the public option? How many companies were/are going to drop their private coverages, pay a relatively light fine, and push their employees onto the public option? Insurance companies cannot "just drop you" when you get sick. I'm not sure what sort of anecdotal evidence there is to suggest that, but it's probably as flimsy as the evidence anti-abortion nuts use to suggest that a fetus is a living, feeling human being.
Sometimes progress means realizing you're going the wrong way and turning back. It's probably not a "genius plan," but we should go back to health insurance being for catastrophic events (broken bones and auto accidents) and certain long-term diseases, like cancer and aids. Prescription plans could either be rolled into that or managed separately. People would go back to paying out of pocket for regular check-ups and visits for "the sniffles." This would keep people from running to the doctor for every runny nose (since it only costs ten or fifteen bucks for a co-pay, why not?), reduce the strain on services, and lower the cost by reducing demand.
I'd be inclined to suggest that our current HMO system shouldn't be entirely scrapped, since that sort of managed care would work better than catastrophic coverage for the elderly and disabled, but I don't think the system is as efficient or cost effective for the young and healthy.
Fantastique wrote:
But if you don't wan to let your kids stay on your plans until they are 26, then don't - nobody is forcing you to. But it makes their lives easier and in most cases, they appreciate it very much. But that's probably not good enough for you since it doesn't come with a $ symbol. In my case, it's one less thing to worry about, and at this point in my life I will gladly accept any help. Why can't this country be run like a team? Why can't we help each other out with a smile on our faces?
I have no issue with students, who generally cannot hold a job while seriously studying, or are underemployed, staying on their parents plans. It has been standard operating procedure in the past anyway.
This country can't be run "like a team" because this is a country of individuals. I have no interest in my success or failure being tied to everyone else's behavior. I don't think a lot of other people do, either. I also think this sort of "we're all in this together" argument rings hollow. Last night the country voted on a lot of candidates saying they wanted to reverse the policies of the last two years. The response of some on this board? "They're dumbstupidtardheads and they don't know what's good for them." The implication that we be a "team" while holding the opinion that half the nation has to be..."stupid" is I seem to remember you saying it...is that they get to be on the team, but
we'll be making all the decisions. That's not teamwork, that's despotism. You might as well ask why we couldn't be "a team" on the Iraq war and Patriot Act.
Fantastique wrote:
And nobody said it absolves me from ALL responsibilities (what's with the extremes, is there no middle ground? oh right, there isn't with republicans).
It's hard to talk about "middle ground" when you seem to think that if someone disagrees with what you believe, it's because they're "stupid." After all, my concerns are only generated by $$$$$ and what my "corporate masters" tell me.
If you don't get sarcasm, I'm saying you're a hypocrite.
Fantastique wrote:
Everyone lives in different situations and has different worries and responsibilities. I don't get what's so difficult to understand about that.
You should understand exactly why it's so difficult to understand since you seem to be unable to grasp the concept that what you see as working out all peachy-keen and wonderful for you doesn't work out so well for the rest of us.
Your Pal,
Jubber
(Can I get a pass for working in Centreville?)