Another mind-numbing god (there is none) "debate"

Usdk · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:43 pm

So you're a nihilist?

Whats the point of anything if there's nothing?

Yuratuhl · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:05 pm

That's a bit of a divergence. Aestu's point is that rationally speaking, god can't exist. This is entirely true. Everything about god fails rationality.

I don't mind that some people have religion to feel more comfortable. I do mind that religion profoundly affects so many non-religious matters.

Battletard · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:43 pm

Great Spirit of the Sky called, you guise r all in depp shit!

Kamguh · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:47 pm

Aestu wrote:

dek wrote:

Aestu wrote:

I know I'm right, and I don't need to sugarcoat or prevaricate.

Not that I am at odds with your opinion on God, but I would say that a religious person would say this exact same thing, and have just as much evidence to back it up.

I don't mean to draw an equivalence in the soundness of what is believed (or known), but simply in the certainty with which it is believed.

Perhaps the best argument I've seen against believing in God didn't try to prove he didn't exist or state it as known fact, but rather to draw an analogy to other mythical creatures. Do you believe in Leprechauns? No, of course not. Can you prove they don't exist? No, of course not. Is that fact alone enough reason to suggest they are actually real? No, of course not.

The same can be said of any creature or being that someone wants to believe in but can show no evidence of.

There is no rational basis to believe in God.

There is a rational basis to know there is no God, which is reading about the origins of the stories about the gods and understanding how these lies have proven useful to the powerful.

Knowing these reasons I can feel quite confident in my knowledge that God is a lie, because I know the history of the lie and why it endures.

Tuhl has the best point really.

@Usdk. This is aestu we are talking about, you full well know how he thinks about most things and his world view shouldn't be too surprising to you.

Weena · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:59 pm

When I worked at Shit Ranch, I mean Pizza Hell, err... Pizza Ranch, I found myself in a discussion about existence(s) of God(s) with the highschool girls and a guy there.

I was able to have a great convo with the guy. Of whom got to the point of saying "I don't think there is any gods, but I'd say there's a decent chance I'm wrong".

The girls however, especially the one. Which amazed me because she in no way was a bible thumper.

-----START READING HERE TO SKIP SHITTY BACKSTORY----

I was asked after some discussion:

"Wouldn't it be more logical to worship God? If it turns out there is none - nothing happens anyway, but if it turns out there is one - then only good happens."

To which I replied - "Unless it's Odin up there, in which case you're totally fucked for worshiping Jehovah. He's going to send you to Hel, the one with one 'L', and you get to enjoy eternity with a woman who's half a corpse while perpetually freezing to death. Not to mention if it's Ra, Zeus, or etc."

Convo then ended abruptly.

Battletard · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:15 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

Kamguh · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:18 pm

@Weena. Pascal's Wager is idiotic and here is a good response to counter it.

Quote:

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe, when there is a significant lack of evidence of any one god's existence.

add to that. If there is a malevolent god then no matter what you have done he will do whatever he feels like and has no thought nor care for you.

Tehra · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:29 pm

ohhhhhhhhhh this is going to be funny.

Dvergar · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:50 pm

Quote:

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place.

I believe you should be all those things simply because there is no god. I've always hated the idea that atheists are suddenly free of moral obligations simply because there is no heavenly parent waiting to punish them. I would say that I am morally a better person than most of the religious people I know.

Weena · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:48 pm

Also, I can't believe I forgot this until now:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w[/youtube]

dek · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Aestu wrote:

dek wrote:

Aestu wrote:

I know I'm right, and I don't need to sugarcoat or prevaricate.

Not that I am at odds with your opinion on God, but I would say that a religious person would say this exact same thing, and have just as much evidence to back it up.

I don't mean to draw an equivalence in the soundness of what is believed (or known), but simply in the certainty with which it is believed.

Perhaps the best argument I've seen against believing in God didn't try to prove he didn't exist or state it as known fact, but rather to draw an analogy to other mythical creatures. Do you believe in Leprechauns? No, of course not. Can you prove they don't exist? No, of course not. Is that fact alone enough reason to suggest they are actually real? No, of course not.

The same can be said of any creature or being that someone wants to believe in but can show no evidence of.

There is no rational basis to believe in God.

There is a rational basis to know there is no God, which is reading about the origins of the stories about the gods and understanding how these lies have proven useful to the powerful.

Knowing these reasons I can feel quite confident in my knowledge that God is a lie, because I know the history of the lie and why it endures.

My basic point was if your goal is to convince other people, you cannot convince someone who has as much certainty in their belief as you do when your only evidence is "but I KNOW it!" They will retort "but I KNOW it!" It's an unbreakable impasse.

However, I will say that there being no rational case for God amounts to little, as the entire premise of God is that of a being that exists entirely above and beyond our plane of existence. The premise is one that not only accepts lack of rationality, but is dependent on it.

Rathmoon · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:01 pm

I wanted to sit this one out, alas.

I believe if we are open minded, we can achieve more on all fronts; and everyone's opinions can remain secure all the same.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtlirc&feature=related[/youtube]
Neither of the 2 people in the video are someone I revere on some high level, but I think open discussions with open minds actually do get somewhere rather than regressing us. This was a clip from Ben Stein's Expelled, I don't revere this documentary either, but I did find it entertaining and interesting.

dek · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:02 pm

Kamguh wrote:

@Weena. Pascal's Wager is idiotic and here is a good response to counter it.

Quote:

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe, when there is a significant lack of evidence of any one god's existence.

add to that. If there is a malevolent god then no matter what you have done he will do whatever he feels like and has no thought nor care for you.

I think pertinent to this is the song I posted in the other thread a while back, the chorus of which is

Oh God, I can't believe in you
Just because I'm afraid you're true

I know a lot of people whose belief in God is ultimately based on fear that he might be true, which is not only a stupid reason to believe in God, but also according at least to Christian scriptures, not really good enough.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:26 pm

You know those assholes that run around knocking on doors asking if you've found Jesus?

He'd probably stop hiding from them if they weren't so fucking annoying.

Seriously, you guys and this "there is no God" shit is about the same thing:

Knock-Knock
"Yes?"
"Have you heard the good news about how there is no good news?"
"Fuck off."

I think it's only fair that since I'm not proselytizing, you could do the same. Ha-Ha funnies about my invisible boogey man in the sky is just good clean ignorant-ass fun from time-to-time, but let's not pretend that anyone is trying to have a deep philosophical conversation here. It's just more of the usual "you don't think what I think so you're dumb."

Your Pal,
Jubber

Yuratuhl · **Posted:** Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:10 pm

Or you're just choosing to read it that way because you crave confrontation and never, ever, ever admit you're just plain wrong.

At least it's not as sad as the time you tried to debate Laelia.

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Another mind-numbing god (there is none) "debate"

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