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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:01 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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They're not separate "historical events". One was the resolution to the other.

My question is what I asked you: what should Carter have done?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:31 pm  
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French Faggot
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Anyone who cites Carter as the worst president in history has no understanding of American history.

Coolidge, Andrew Johnson, Lyndon Johnson (must be the last name), Ford, Reagan.

On topic: I'll never be nostalgic for the Bush era, nor will I ever look back on it with fondness. But I'll say it wouldn't have been nearly so terrible if he'd chosen better advisors. Are good intentions an adequate excuse for negligence? No, but at least it helps make you look like you were honest and it was the people around you that were total douchebags.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:40 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Oh, Carter can be the one to thank for the Community Reinvestment Act and how that impacted our housing market's collapse a few years ago.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:43 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Oh, Carter can be the one to thank for the Community Reinvestment Act and how that impacted our housing market's collapse a few years ago.


Housing market collapse was caused by deregulation of SnLs


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:45 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Aestu wrote:
Eturnalshift wrote:
Oh, Carter can be the one to thank for the Community Reinvestment Act and how that impacted our housing market's collapse a few years ago.


Housing market collapse was caused by deregulation of SnLs


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:25 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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So you're saying it had nothing to do with the government pressuring lenders to give out mortgages to people who would otherwise not be up to the lenders standards? If the government is backing one of these loans, there's no risk to the lender. The governments continued push to put people in homes, regardless if they could afford them or not, is a pretty big factor in this mix.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:35 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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i thought that was the main factor.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:45 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
They're not separate "historical events". One was the resolution to the other.

No, it wasn't. If anything, the hostage crisis was the resolution of Carter's foreign policy, since he had pulled all the backing from the Shah. To further compound his idiocy, instead of letting the Shah swing from a rope, he allowed him to take refuge in the US. That pissed off the revolutionaries in Iran, and made us a, if not "the," bad guy. The hostage crisis followed from that.

How you think that attempting to sell weapons to moderates/counter-revolutionaries in Iran to fund revolutionaries elsewhere is the resolution of that (or the resolution of anything, for that matter) is beyond me. Personally, I don't think you do. This is just one of those odd occasions where you're stubbornly refusing to admit that you're wrong and grasping at any straw you think will buoy you out of that sea of error.

Aestu wrote:
My question is what I asked you: what should Carter have done?

The same thing(s) we should do now:
1) Go nuclear for electricity: In the over fifty year history of nuclear power, there have been only two major incidents, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.
The bulk of the problem with Three Mile Island was that technicians didn't follow protocols and defeated built-in safeguards because they believed the problem they were having to be something other than what the problem actually was. Despite these errors, no radiation or contaminants escaped that plant.
Chernobyl was a completely different monster in that it was a poorly designed (more likely poorly copied) facility that was overdue for overhaul/closure. Improper maintenance, bad design, and just plain age resulted in nuclear calamity that impacted the surrounding environment for decades to come.
While nuclear power is potentially hazardous, it is less polluting than conventional power, and properly designed and maintained facilities operating withing protocols minimize, if not completely negate, any risks.

That one should have been a no-brainer for a guy that served on nuclear subs.

2)Infrastructure: Part of the energy problem is infrastructure. The fact that we haven't built a new oil refinery since Carter's time (because of rules enacted on his watch...way to solve the problem) is a large part of this problem. We have a system built for the demands of the 1970s attempting to pump out the fuels to meet demands three or four times greater. Most of our refineries are along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, which puts those facilities in jeopardy due to hurricanes. The lack of processing our supply becomes even greater because due to regional environmental regulations. The fuel you can sell in Nebraska can't be sold in California.
There are two ways to combat this problem. First, switching the country to a unified fuel blend would have an immediate impact on both cost and production. Secondly, we should remove excessively restrictive regulations that make building new refineries cost-prohibitive. I do not wish to imply that there is no need for environmental safe-guards to minimize the environmental impact, since I breathe the same air most of you do, but some of the regulations are ridiculously restrictive and far exceed similar standards in other industries.
Oil companies should be encouraged to build refineries regionally. Since there is a lot of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) opposition to energy infrastructure, localities should be encouraged to embrace these facilities, as well. I am not sure how best to do this, since I discourage tax breaks/subsidies to control behavior, but the boon of new jobs and some cash influx that refineries would bring to a community should be at least a small bit of incentive.

There will be considerable resistance to this idea from environmental groups, among others, but should be done. There is also the fringe benefit of decentralizing our refining capabilities in case of future hurricanes/disasters along the Gulf Coast.

3)Wind and Solar: These were highly touted in Carter's energy policy, but even now are mostly crap. T. Boone Pickens, a billionaire who made his money in the energy sector, attempted to build and operate a functional wind-farm...electric providers refused to tie into in because it wasn't reliable enough. The same thing happens with solar farms. This is not to say the technology should not be developed, but until it is reliable, we can't make them part of any workable energy policy.

4)Propane: Propane is readily produced and there is infrastructure already in place to support it, which makes it ideal for adoption it as a motor fuel. Currently, propane is used mostly for home heating and recreational devices. There is a large market, though, for propane as a fuel already, as it is commonly used to fuel forklifts and other specialty equipment.

5)Exploration/Recovery: Find it and drill it. Leaving ANWAR untouched because we don't want to schmutz up a frozen fucking tundra is retarded. There's no reason we can't gather resources without taking a piss on spotted owls, you fucking hippies.

Your Pal,
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:49 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Eturnalshift wrote:
So you're saying it had nothing to do with the government pressuring lenders to give out mortgages to people who would otherwise not be up to the lenders standards? If the government is backing one of these loans, there's no risk to the lender. The governments continued push to put people in homes, regardless if they could afford them or not, is a pretty big factor in this mix.


Usdk wrote:
i thought that was the main factor.


That's because it was. It inflated real estate values, too, which just made those loans bigger as time progressed. If anything, the Freddie/Fannie policies priced people who otherwise could have afforded a home either out of the housing market or into a home they couldn't afford, which just fed the vicious circle even more.

Your Pal,
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AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:06 pm  
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Jubbergun wrote:



The same thing(s) we should do now:
1) Go nuclear for electricity: In the over fifty year history of nuclear power, there have been only two major incidents, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.
The bulk of the problem with Three Mile Island was that technicians didn't follow protocols and defeated built-in safeguards because they believed the problem they were having to be something other than what the problem actually was. Despite these errors, no radiation or contaminants escaped that plant.
Chernobyl was a completely different monster in that it was a poorly designed (more likely poorly copied) facility that was overdue for overhaul/closure. Improper maintenance, bad design, and just plain age resulted in nuclear calamity that impacted the surrounding environment for decades to come.
While nuclear power is potentially hazardous, it is less polluting than conventional power, and properly designed and maintained facilities operating withing protocols minimize, if not completely negate, any risks.




I agree with Jubber on something dang.


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Mazeltov
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:19 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Eturnalshift wrote:
So you're saying it had nothing to do with the government pressuring lenders to give out mortgages to people who would otherwise not be up to the lenders standards? If the government is backing one of these loans, there's no risk to the lender. The governments continued push to put people in homes, regardless if they could afford them or not, is a pretty big factor in this mix.


This is a myth; show me any evidence to support it.

We deregulated SnLs. It caused a crisis.
We deregulated the CA power grid. It caused a crisis.
We deregulated, or rather failed to regulate, the derivative and hedge fund firms. It caused a crisis.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:24 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Aestu wrote:
This is a myth; show me any evidence to support it.



So you're saying all of these lenders lent money to people who didn't meet their loan criteria for no reason whatsoever?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:51 pm  
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i like how everyone is saying Obama is the worst president in history. the guy has actually done quite a bit with half the country stonewalling him.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:03 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Aestu wrote:
This is a myth; show me any evidence to support it.


I couldn't find anything from the BBC, but I'll try anyway.

Aestu wrote:
We deregulated SnLs. It caused a crisis.


Again, you're confusing historical events/periods. The S&L (Saturday Night Live has nothing to do with this, unless they did a sketch) Crisis happened about 20 years ago. The lending during this period was an issue because they banks in question over-extended themselves, lending more than was wise. That is quite different from the current housing crisis, which was driven by loans made to creditors who were likely to default. These loans were encouraged by the government through GSEs like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who bought up and or backed/insured these mortgages. Furthermore, Congress, or at least some of its members (namely Barney Frank), gave plenty of indication that if these types of loans weren't made, there would be repercussions for non-participating institutions. The banks engaged in a lot of goofy shit to make these risks work, in addition to the aforementioned selling off to Fannie/Freddie (which put the government on the hook for the defaults).

Aestu wrote:
We deregulated the CA power grid. It caused a crisis.

It's been a while since that chaos, but if I remember correctly, part of the so-called "deregulation" involved price-controls. Not only are price-controls not deregulation, price-controls don't work...thus rolling blackouts.

Aestu wrote:
We deregulated, or rather failed to regulate, the derivative and hedge fund firms. It caused a crisis.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but when Mr. Peabody comes back with the Way-Back Machine, maybe he can take me to the part of history you're confusing some other part of history.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:07 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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Might as well add "historian" onto the long list of professions that Jubber thinks he is.


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